Interesting to hear the yank view on this. Children of Earth was pretty good, mostly because it harkened back to the old school of Dr. Who, meaning they can spend episodes just ratcheting up the tension instead of solving everything inside of 45 minutes.
Plus there was less focus on the arsehole lead characters and more on plot and excellently played civil servants.

John Barrowman is still the smug, attention whoring twat he always was though, so Torchwood fans should still enjoy him and the dubious deus ex machina in later episodes.

Enjoy Children of Earth America. I complain but it was still jolly enjoyable and the best Torchwood to date.

You know I love you in my asexual, geeky kinda way, right?
And after Children of Earth in particular I really have to agree with this.

Torchwood has come a long way since the shaky first season with the monster that fed off human orgasms and the like, and really come in to it's own as not just compelling sci-fi, but genuinely compelling television. (Unfortunate that the distinction has to be made still, isn't it?)

I'm a life-long Who fan but after CoE in particular (though it began in Season 2, really) I would definitely place Torchwood as the more important show to me now.

(One thing though in #3, it's 'Dalek' not 'Dalik')

If Torchwood would ditch the melodrama, it would be awesome.

I thought anyone who was a real Torchwood/Who fan had already watched CoE...

5 episodes don't make it a better show. whole 2 seasons of torchwood sucked badly and you know it.

I've only seen the first two seasons of Doctor Who, and PBS is slow as fuck on starting up the third

"1) Captain Jack Is Awesome and Sticking Around"

I lol'd.

It would be nice if we could keep out the CoE spoilers. Hasn't aired in America yet.

And I can't get the god-damned download to work, either.

I love Torchwood, but do Barrowman's teeth frighten anyone else? I keep thinking there's going to be an episode where Captain Jack is possessed by an alien set of dentures.

I'm pretty sure this article is factually wrong, and not just the premise.

For one thing, I'm pretty sure Who fans in general hate Martha Jones and love Rose Tyler.

The warlike Who races mentioned appear relatively rarely, and most of the time the races the Doctor encounters are friendly and being oppressed by some dark force, or have a few bad eggs. Saying they're all out to get Earth is like saying Star Trek only has warlike aliens because, hey, look, the Borg!

In other words, this article exists solely to start shit and needs to be fact-checked..

What Doctor Who: The New Doctor special are you talking about? I haven't heard about that...

PM,

This article might just have been done to take the piss out of Who, but I do know there are fans who prefer Torchwood over Who. My girlfriend, for instance, only started watching these shows with me in the last couple of years and liked the more adult nature of Torchwood Season 1 to Doctor Who, which can have its embarassingly childish moments (mainly during the David Tennant years as opposed to Chritopher Eccleston's series). She would often cringe at some of the stuff in Who. But then we watched Torchwood Season 2 and she thought it was pretty bad, making her appreciate Doctor Who all the more, like the latest episode with the bus. We haven't seen Children of Earth yet, but I hear it's awesome.

Torchwood's main problem (especially in the first season) is that too many of the problems are their fault. When the guys doing the protecting are actually putting the world in danger half the time, it's hard to take them seriously as believable experts.

@PM

There will always be groups of fans who like one and hate the other, but Russell T. Davies's absolute refusal to just let Rose go has turned a lot of fans that didn't already hate her character against her, especially in season four.

Also, I don't know what Doctor Who you've been watching, but it is mostly races of aliens who want to destroy Earth/kill the Doctor/steal our resources/they're bored/etc. The Doctor is a larger-than-life being to solve our larger-than-life problems. And we love him for it.

Snoodle,

Apologies for the Dalik/Dalek typo. *kicking myself repeatedly*

Thanks,

Pamela Mitchell

I like both, equally.

However, Torchwood has way more sex... And I like sex.

I still don't quite get how the weavils wind up on Earth all wearing the same jumpsuit...

Torchwood has balls, though; What other scifi show so readily kills off the main characters the way Torchwood does? When bad shit happens on Torchwood, it actually has *weight* and we take it as a serious threat, because the show has proven that they'll kill characters at the drop of a hat if it serves the story and makes sense.

Hell... Jack dies several times per episode!

I seen this last week and can safely say you'll really enjoy tit. It's pretty disturbing at points though.

@rika

I thought for a second that he meant 'another' batch of new episodes was getting some surprise showing. The list had to have been made as an in-joke, given how many of those items were screwed with in it.

i would also add that torchwood characters actully keep in touch with each other where doctor who he winds up ditching his companion after a bit and never a visit. not to mention torchwood stays in one place and not vanish after the threat is over . plus captain jack takes time out for romance doctor who none.

Some people keeps forgetting that Torchwood is made for adults/teens and Doctor Who is made for kids. It even have a kid talkshow and all that.

I like both.

"Torchwood HQ itself has become another character on the show. "

BWAHAHAHAHA. Ah, irony...

Anyway, if Torchwood is written well, it's up there with the best Who stuff. The problems are that:

(1) That doesn't happen all that often; and
(2) Badly done Torchwood is irredeemably awful, whereas even bad Doctor Who usually has some redeeming qualities (Tennant's fanboyish enthusiasm being the #1 saving grace of even the worst eps).

Children of Earth was decent, but far too long for the story it was telling. All it really proved was that it's probably a good thing that we don't get five-part episodes in Who anymore, since you can't realistically stretch a plot that long in the 21st century.

@PM Martha Jones was great, but she had the thankless task of following up fan favorite Rose Tyler's departure. (It honestly still surprises me that anyone was a fan of the shrill Donna Noble character).

Also, Catherine Tate's "Am I bovvered" bit is shite.

All that said, excellent article!

"Martha Jones was great, but she had the thankless task of following up fan favorite Rose Tyler's departure. "

I think that's one of those North America / UK distinctions - Rose was liked, but not beloved, in North America because the fanbase skews older and is more likely to at least have some exposure to the first version of the show. In the UK, Rose is how all the kids watching the show were introduced to the show, therefore her getting replaced was a much bigger deal. North Americans kind of shrugged and embraced the idea of a more competent companion (the IDEA, since it's not like they really ever actually wrote her with a medical background in mind) without much regard for sentiment.

"It honestly still surprises me that anyone was a fan of the shrill Donna Noble character"

See above. People in the UK may "get" her, but her appeal is pretty limited outside the UK. Again, it's the gap between "pop cultural institution" and "decent obscure SF show no one's heard of"

Sadly, #1 is exactly why I can't get into the show; Captain Jack is possibly the most annoying, smug, pretentious twat on television (with the possible exception of the chap from Dresden Files), and makes the entire show (which has a genuinely good premise, and interesting and likeable side-characters) just unwatchable for me.
Oh well, there's always Bernice Summerfield.

I think that another problem with viewing in the US/Canada is that there's so much time between seasons. I haven't seen a Doctor Who episode since last year, with no news on when a new one's coming. But tonight there's Torchwood. It's nice, especially if your comuter isn't that good at downloading video.

1 Reason Doctor Who is better than Torchwood:

1: It's Doctor Who. It doesn't matter what else you say, it's still Doctor Who. Torchwood wouldn't exist because of it. Could it be argued that Doctor who as a show is not as good? Perhaps, but Doctor Who as a cultural body of thought, of which Torchwood is actually just a component (since it exists in the same universe) is far more important.

Asking whether Torchwood is better than Doctor Who is like asking if David Tennant's spleen is better than David Tennant. It makes no real sense since one just exists as a part of the other.

Watched the first season of Torchwood. Too much screaming, too much forced drama. The second didn't get much better so I stopped.

Doctor Who is just plain fun. You can't say that about Torchwood.

I'll admit that I wasn't a big fan of Torchwood when it first started. I watched the first two episodes, thought it was okay, then forgot about it. (Okay, I'll admit it- I "found" the episodes online and never bothered to get the rest of season 1.)

I then watched it when it came on BBC America and stuck with the entire season. I think it finally hit its stride around episode #5 or 6, and season two was even better since it had a running story-arc.

Is "Children of Earth" too long for the story it's telling? Maybe, but what other TV show would take the time to focus on the civil-servants. I hope I'm not spoiling anything by saying a "middle manager" government administrator has the biggest role in the show (apart from the leads, that is). Most other shows would skip this person and focus on the Prime Minister or President or other world leaders.

I think Doctor Who could be as good if they also had a 5 hour-long story line.

Children of Earth was good, but really, has everyone forgotten about the previous series' of Torchwood? Also, Doctor Who isn't fresh on our minds any more, but it still is fucking awesome.

What bothers me about Captain Jack is that on Doctor Who he's awesome: fun, devil-may-care, an action hero, a bit more on an even playing field with the Doctor than most companions. Yet on Torchwood, he becomes full of angst and a lot less fun and interesting. Yet, when he guests on Doctor Who, he goes back to old Jack! It's really amazing. I wish the Captain Jack from the 2005 Doctor Who series was the same Jack on Torchwood. I know he's been through a lot since then, but BLAH.

I actually like Donna Noble a lot, simply because she gave the Doctor so much heck.

I don't think I could have enjoyed another companion constantly fawning and batting their eyelashes at the Doctor every episode like Rose and Martha. (Jack too I guess)

Seriously, better HQ? Some pokey little welsh shithole whose main selling point seems to be a fairly decent internet connection is better than A FUCKING TIME TRAVELLING PHONE BOX SPACE SHIP?

Another reason Torchwood is better?

More man kissing!!!! *see season 2 episode 1 ;)

"but what other TV show would take the time to focus on the civil-servants. "

Um, The West Wing? Yes Minister? That show Matt Smith did that's apparently very good but I still haven't found a torrent of?

Torchwood's political scenes paled in comparison to the first two, especially. I like my civil servants firing off complex dialogue at a million miles an hour, not the slow... dramatic... line... reads of this one.

Love this list. I spent forever trying to get into Doctor Who because some of my friends loved it, but it just doesn't do it for me. Torchwood on the other hand, grabbed me from the beginning - campier, more dramatic, more interesting characters, and overall, just more fun.

As for shows that kill off central characters regularly, you guys have to see Spooks (I think it's called MI-5 in the states?). Torchwood is average. When the writing is good, it's very good, but those occasions are few and far between, most of the time it's merely a soap opera with a few sci-fi trappings. Also, if Captain Jack is supposed to be ageless why does he look older in this series and they are careful to film him only from certain angles and with contrived lighting? (sorry if I spoil). Children of Earth was good TV though, we watched it every night.

B

We British laugh at Americans for being into Torchwood. It's super shit. But the main character has an American(ish) accent, so you lot readily embrace it. It's a stinking hot turd and the BBC know it, thats why they change the time slot, thats why the series are know 5 episodes instead of 12.

Cack.

I think you just got pwned by Angry Who Fan.

http://angrywhofan.blogspot.com/

Jay,

It's a known fact that we Americans only like sci-fi (in fact, all drama) when it's full of grimacing, shouting, and waving around of guns. Therefore, Torchwood.

I mean, Children of Earth was surprisingly good, but the key word there is 'surprisingly' because until now Torchwood hasn't even been in the same hemisphere as good. But one quite good story does not cancel out two full seasons of frequently embarrassing crap. And it's sure as hell not better than the best Doctor Who has to offer, or has everybody forgotten Blink, The Empty Child/The Doctor Dances, Human Nature/Family of Blood already?

Reason .05:
They both suck, but Torchwood sucks a little less.

Torchwood better than doctor who. . . . ARE YOU MAD!!! Doctor who is thee best.

Dr. Who is a ratings failure in America. That's why SyFy yanked it off the air, and why it can't even air on Public Television. It's about as worthless as that police-insulting-One-Termer in the Oval Office.

they both rock but doctor who is way better. and i am in america. i love doctor who and would watch it over torchwood anyday. oh and i like the doctors sidekicks better.

Is Torchwood better than Doctor Who? Depends on what parts of them you're comparing (and what kind of shows you like in the first place).

I was blown away by CoE, I thought it was one of the best pieces of television I've seen in ages. But one of the reasons I thought it was so good, was because the previous two seasons of Torchwood were not. If they can do stories on CoE's level, why was it so bad earlier?

I think one reason Torchwood is so popular in America is because it's so different than most things on American TV. In American TV you don't usually see an Omnisexual soft porn/adventure series on a major channel in a prime time slot.

But back to CoE. The first thing I thought of when I finished watching it, is if Russell T. Davies can write this good, why hasn't he been doing it for Doctor Who! CoE was a good solid, rollicking, edge-of-your-seat scifi adventure! I'd love to see Doctor Who done with this level of excellence, instead of a lot of the 45 minute plotless cheesiness-and-angst that gets mistaken for Doctor Who lately.

But if you're comparing Torchwood to all of Doctor Who, no it's not better. There are plenty of Classic storylines that would give CoE a run for it's money if they took the same stories and just tightened them up for today's storytelling pace and gave them modern effects. That's why I thought CoE reminded me of the Best of Old Who.

But if you're comparing on a guns-and-sex basis. Well, Doctor Who is better if you don't want guns and sex, and Torchwood is better if you do. Apples and Oranges.

Basically, now that they've done CoE as a 5 part miniseries and proven it can be wildly successful, I'd like to see a 5 part New Who story told with this level of plot tension and attention to detail. It would be awesome.

Uh, the SyFy Channel hasn't "yanked" Doctor Who off the air; they had a marathon of it today. Plus, there have only been two specials since the end of series four, and I think they're waiting until all the specials are done so they can air them close together.