How long until we get a Red Book of Mao graphic novel?

Finally there is a way for me to explain Facism to my young children!

I assume that this is sold at Japan's famous Hitler Building...well, was, before the Neptune Men destroyed it:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oUkVYauZWHg

And I expect TokyoPop will be translating it here shortly...while Kindaichi Case Files remains unpublished past the 17th volume here.

>THE MEIN KAMPF MANGA SOLD 45,000 COPIES IN GERMANY.

No it hasn't. It has sold 45,000 copies worldwide, most of them in Japan, where they have something troubling me what they call a „Nazi-Craze“, where they play with the aesthetics of Nazis.

What's the over-under on how long it'll be before a Downfall parody on this shows up on YouTube?

Hands of the "far-right"? Nazis were liberals (Socialists). Look it up.lol

Actually, the Nazi government was Fascist, which is about as far right as you can get. Total government control, but different social and economic policies. The political spectrum isn't really a line, it's more of a horseshoe.

So, the Japanese will make comic book versions of Nazi Germany's manifesto, but they refuse to acknowledge the atrocities committed against the Chinese in places like Nanking? Nice.

Popular culture in Japan is just plain bizarre.

"...was Fascist, which is about as far right as you can get..."

This is an argument you hear from liberals because they're hoping to mitigate the "Liberalism is Socialism" paradigm. The problem liberals have is that the socialism argument is spot-on while the facist argument pretty specious...at least as far as the arguments are applied to modern day lefties and righties.

So what? It's a book, people. It's not the Necronomicon. It doesn't hypnotize people into becoming Nazis. People out there who want to cling to it as their personal manifesto have already drunk the Kool-Aid anyway. Banning the book won't "un-Nazi" them and reading it won't convince me to shave my head and strap on my Doc Martens.

Reading it might actually help me to recognize just what kind of crazy Hitler had cooking in his fucked-up brain, though, so maybe I can recognize it if some other shithead wants to start us down the same path. But reading it sure wouldn't mean that I support Hitler, the Nazi ethos, or the Holocaust.

And banning books is inane, anyway. People ban, burn, and censor books because they fear ideas. But you can't just sweep ideas under the rug. They're still out there. And if you ban the stuff, you just make it MORE attractive to people on the edge, who feel disenfranchised and misunderstood, who are looking for some identity because nobody "gets" them. You make it sexy. You give it power that it doesn't deserve. You tell people "I'm afraid of this."

Besides, banning a book because we're afraid it'll turn people into Fascist fuckheads or glorify one of the worst people in history is the height of irony. Because banning books is what Fascist fuckheads do.

y2jbrak said:

Hands of the "far-right"? Nazis were liberals (Socialists). Look it up.lol

Err. Wrong. Hitler wanted nothing but a dictatorship, would say and do anything to get power, and many of the early Nazi's who truly wanted a socialist government wound up getting killed during the Night of the Long Knives- Gregor Strasser for example. At one time or another he was also in cahoots with the German Communist party during the von Papen administration, Stalin himself during the invasion of Poland, the list of political machinations during the waning days of the Weimar republic are endless.

The whole 'Nazis are liberals' thing is the exclusive domain of the Glenn Beck crowd. Try reading 'Rise and Fall of the Third Reich' by William L. Shirer for a better understanding of the era.

The Nazis called themselves socialists, but were actually a totalitarian capitalists.
China calls itself communist, but is actually a mishmash of totalitarianism, socialism, communism, and capitalism.
America calls itself democratic, but is a capitalist republic.
Japan calls itself a democracy, but is a capitalist/socialist/democratic mishmash.
North Korea calls itself a democratic republic, but is a totalitarian dictatorship clusterfuck.

The lesson to be learned is "Group A calls themselves X or considers themselves to be X" very, very seldom means that Group A actually *is* X.

(And, yes, I realize that I'm mixing political and economic systems, but that becomes necessary when communism comes into the mix, as it's both)

"So, the Japanese will make comic book versions of Nazi Germany's manifesto, but they refuse to acknowledge the atrocities committed against the Chinese in places like Nanking? Nice.

Popular culture in Japan is just plain bizarre."

Sure. And Americans will watch Hostel but consider Harry Potter to be Satanic.

No, wait, Americans aren't a big monolithic group. *Some* Americans love gore movies. Some *other* Americans hate anything remotely in that vein, and even consider children's books about wizards to be evil incarnate.

Same with Japan. There is a minor fringe element that disbelieves the Nanking Massacre. These people are considered as right-wing nuts outside Japan. But guess what: they're considered right-wing nuts *inside* Japan as well. You know how every year there's a news report about some Japanese high school text book that omits the Nanking Massacre? You know why that's in the news? Because "46 other high school text books include the Nanking Massacre" doesn't get as many readers.

If we had to go by just what hits the newsstands, I'd have to conclude that Americans just go walking around shooting each-other in the head all day long.

[i]If we had to go by just what hits the newsstands, I'd have to conclude that Americans just go walking around shooting each-other in the head all day long.[/i]

But isn't that exactly what they do?

Jokes aside,I find myself more worried about the fact that for the last couple of years people seem more and more unable to grasp text that is too long or too small or is not assisted by a graphic snip every two paragraphs and at least three double page spreading images.

What's wrong with reading a book?
Have people become so incapable of understanding written language that everything needs to be translated into a visual medium preferably synthethizing dialog as much as possible and adding action indicating background lines?

i find this more acceptable than books about rape/incest/bestiality/murder,and don't even get me started on hentai.(Zing!)

Ah, Mein Kampf, that's really problematic here in Germany.... To clear things up, the copyright is indeed being held by the ministry of finance in Bavaria (don't ask how a state institution got hold of the intellectual property of the Führer). The real reason it is forbidden in Germany is that it is damaging to the reputation of the country. You know, it's giving us Germans a bad reputation in the rest of the World. Interestingly the book is freely available in this "the rest of the World".
And don't get me started about the nazi-party (NSDAP) songs. Those are property of the GEMA, the German equivalent to the RIAA.

But I have to say, in all the discussion about how to handle our nazi-past: It's awkward - and it better stay that way - better not join another war and kill some innocent bystanders... Oh snap!

The horseshoe metafore is quite apt. The myth about Nazis being socialist stems from neglect of the fact that the Nationalsozialistischer Deutsche Arbeiterpartei Deutschland was started and funded by the rightwing occult Thüle-socienty to steal votes from the SPD (Socialdemocrats) and KPD (Communist). To claim that Nationalsocialists are leftwing is like claiming tofu is like real meat.

So they made Mein Kampf into a manga. Meh. I just wish they had the balls to admit that the reason they did it wasn't to "study the thinking that created that level of tragedy" but rather because they knew it would sell and they could make a whole boodle of money on it.

I'm still waiting for the Muppet version of Blood Meridian.

Doc

I so completely hate myself for actually being interested in reading this.

Holy Shit. This is a strange little story. I... can't think of anything to say, really.

this just proves how different Japan culture is if they are willing to make a manga version of the bio of the most vilest man in history . where some tried that here they would be crusified and its sold that much due to curosity of what really made hitler tick to be such an evil moster do not have any desire to try and get a copy ever

I am German and what is this.

I understand that Mein Kampf should be read in school to skirm people away from right radicals( ever read one of the pages? Most fucking boring shit ever, and all his goals were written in there, prooving only the Nazis read it) but this!

BUT THIS!

Japan never came out of WW2, I tell you people. Just as the Chinese did out of Mao.

Tantrix, you absolutely hit the nail on the head:

"I understand that Mein Kampf should be read...[but it's the] Most fucking boring shit ever". Hence this manga, to make something which should be read but is incredibly boring readable.

I haven't read it, so I don't know if it waters things down, plays sympathetic, plays antagonistic, or the like, but if it's a straight adaptation, I am fully in favor of it.

You can get your hands on Mein Kampf (or Mao's Little Red Book) at any library in the US.

Taking them out might get you on a list, but most people are on one list or another.

I don't think that the intent of the manga MK is to glorify Hitler or his party. It might even be an attempt to defuse the text, like Eisner's "The Plot."

I wouldn't want my kid reading the MK manga, but I'm not horrified and offended that there are people who do want to see it.

If you want to make sure that everybody reads a book, put it on a banned list...

People, can we not get into lenghty discussions about whether or not Nazism was scocialist, faciast,left or right wing. I think that we can all agree that they were lead by a wack job who murdered millions of people. And as to this manga version of mein kampf, I think that we can also all agree that it is this kind of thing that has made japan the WTF capital of the world. end. no more need of discussion.

Hitler's a bad guy. Why does Stalin always seem to get a free pass? The guy got like 2-3 times as many people killed, yet Hitler is Satan-became-flesh and history treats Salin like the annoying uncle that's kind of creepy and hit on your sister.

Sykishi's got it right. I think the average hentai is worse than anything Hitler wrote down.

Mein Kampf is not banned in Germany. It is completly legal to own it. What is not allowed is to sell it for the following reason:

After Hitlers death the STate of Bavaria got all his belongings that were not confiscated by the Allieds, this included the Copyright for Mein Kampf. If they wanted, they could print Mein Kampf anytime they like to.

Further in a few years the copyright expires and after that it is a free for all.

Oh and concerning the "left-right" thing.

Yes the Nazis called themself National Socalist..but the most conversative party in Germany today is called Christian Social Union.

And while in the US Liberal means left, here it means small government, low taxes, pro business etc.

Long story short, you cannot simply declare a parties politcal position by its name, even more so if it is from a different country were the same label might have a different meaning.

Mein Kampf is not banned in Germany. It is completly legal to own it. What is not allowed is to sell it for the following reason:

After Hitlers death the STate of Bavaria got all his belongings that were not confiscated by the Allieds, this included the Copyright for Mein Kampf. If they wanted, they could print Mein Kampf anytime they like to.

Further in a few years the copyright expires and after that it is a free for all.

Oh and concerning the "left-right" thing.

Yes the Nazis called themself National Socalist..but the most conversative party in Germany today is called Christian Social Union.

And while in the US Liberal means left, here it means small government, low taxes, pro business etc.

Long story short, you cannot simply declare a parties politcal position by its name, even more so if it is from a different country were the same label might have a different meaning.

You think Stalin gets an undue pass, how about Pol Pot? He killed almost a quarter of the population of his country, and most people haven't even heard his name.

Why does this exist?

Socialism & and National Socialism ARE NOT the same concept! One is Left, the other is Extreme Right! Geez!

Ein Katze ist fein auch.

There are worse things in mangas than Hitler ranting about the conspiracy that wanted to keep him down. Or is that even what it's about? I'm actually curious. was the book a BIG RED FLAG or did he not sound like a nutjob at first?

Seems like that's an important lesson: psychos don't always look like bad news until it's too late. Every part of the political spectrum/horseshoe should want to teach folks to study the message not the charismatic messenger.

wtb girl-on-girl art of war manga

Stalin killed more people, but I think people put more emphasis as to the reasons why people were killed. Political enemies, madness, and/or paranoia is evil, no question, but Hitler almost wiped out every ethnic prevelant in Europe. Hatred for Gypsies and Jews have been prevelant in Europe for centuries. Hitler took it an entirely new level.

Also, we demonize Hitler more, so he becomes a more mythic figure then Stalin. And, because of that, we actually make him more attractive for people.

Moe~~

@random: Now you've gotten Holiday in Cambodia stuck in my head. Thank you.

y2jbrak: You fail history forever.

Wow.

Political drama abounds!

All I can say is - FMA movie anyone? Anime Hitler FTW.

@Madness Monk:

Ditto.

Should I carry this on J-List? I am serious.

This is just one step closer to a manga version of the Goku/Anne Frank Fan Fic Friday story.

For Dan Marek and Davidh: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Edp02HyBqrY. It's a good explanation of the way we think about different mass murderers.

Nothing stomps out fascism like the banning of books...

Anyways, as Americans understand the terms "right" and "left," fascism is a left-wing ideology. You look at Mussolini and he was raised by Communist radical parents, rose to prominence in Italy's Communist Party by being more radical than the party leadership who wanted to reform the government where Mussolini (also an atheist extremely hostile to Catholicism) wanted a revolution. He also took part in violent anti-war protests during WWI, which ultimately led him to realize that the workers from all countries continued to fight in "capitalist" wars because they would not shed their national ties and unite under the banner of class like Communism (international socialism) predicted. He then founded a socialism based on loyalty to the individual state (national socialism), a model followed by Hitler and even FDR, who all approved highly of each other during the 1930s when nary a bad word could be found in the American press about either Italy or Germany. Because Russia was the de facto epicenter of the international Communist movement, the Communists clashed with the fascists who had established a competing vision of socialism distinct from Russia. The two fought because they were too similar to both survive since they appealed to the same base of supporters. Much as if the Green Party were as big as the Democratic party, the two would fight bitterly since they'd be dividing their voter base allowing the Republicans to win elections by default. Both the Soviets and the Nazis enacted universal health care, banned private gun ownership, were extremely hostile towards organized religion, and organized union labor for the purposes of violence and persuasion during their rise to power. American conservatism, or "classical liberalism," stems primarily from Lockean natural rights theory and ideas arising from English and Scottish Enlightenments of the 18th century. The best example of "extreme" conservatism is the American Articles of Confederation, which preceded the writing of the Constitution. Under this system, more power was given to the individual states specifically because of the fear of an overpowering government or dictator. Its failing was in making the central government so weak as to be ineffectual. Both fascism and communism are statist ideologies necessitating a powerful central authority over all aspects of the state's operation--"All within the state, nothing outside the state, nothing against the state," as Mussolini said. Fascism and communism are both simply different variations on Marxist theory and ideology, the former straying farther than the latter from the core tenets. True socialism advocates the government ownership of the means of production while national socialism adopted a system of corporatism, which mingled private industry and government to the point where industry was still owned privately but was essentially controlled by the central authority in exchange for enforced industrial monopolies for those choice government-controlled interests. Both of these are strictly at odds with the more laissez-faire, Austrian school capitalism advocated by classical liberalism.

http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w274/willzweigart/the_more_you_know.jpg

What's that old saying? Those who ignore history are doomed to repeat it?

Just leave the book and this new manga alone. Banning books of any sort just promotes ignorance and denies freedom of expression. If you don't agree with it, don't read it.

@Dan Marek
Stalin killed off 20 million of his own people while Hitler singled out the Jews and tortured/killed a couple million. Whoever complains the loudest gets heard. Apparently the remaining Russians were too busy starving to complain about how they were treated.

Is this big news in Japan? Yes, is it big news here? I don't think so, mein kampf is readily available here.

two things:

1) i don't know the political situation in germany, but i can't swallow suppressing ANY serious literary work

2) far right, far left = FULL CIRCLE. get over your media nomenclature, assholes.

previous poster here...i don't want to be misunderstood - i'm not speaking to mein kampf's literary merits. mine is just a statement against censorship

Slightly off topic, but I really don't get this whole "anime culture+nazi regalia"-scene. Like some otakus are marching with nazi uniforms on at a convention but it's somehow cool because it's "ironic" or "quirky". Yes, uniforms are certainly quite cool but being a nazi ironically or for the laughs is not.

To be honest, I'd be more inclined to read the manga version of Mein Kampf than the actual novel. I think Hitler was a bastard, but I'm endlessly fascinated by manga adaptations. :P

Hmmmmm, this is a tough subject. It is understandable why there are those that wish it to be printed. There is a historical and literary significance to Mein Kampf. It is also understandable why there are those that wish it to be suppressed for the very same reasons.

Free speech is a funny thing like that. Awful, terrible things are just as valid in a truly free society as good, wholesome things.

The questions for me are:

Has Germany benefited from the banning of Mein Kampf?
Has Germany been harmed by the banning of Mein Kampf?

Censorship is a tricky business that every government participates in. It's easy to say that something should not be censored, but people tend to have boundaries. Certain things they believe should be censored, even if only to a degree. Swear words should be bleeped out. Children should not have access to certain "adult" materials. A rating system is to be applied to various types of media, thus automatically hindering the creative minds involved and thus the work they create.

It will be a long time before the true effects of banning Mein Kampf will be seen. Probably decades from now. Whether they are good or bad? Unknown.

@Tantrix

Why the finger pointing, dude? Only 45 thousand people out of a possible 128 million (.03%) bought this book. Buying the book doesn't show any affliation. For contrast, harry potter and the deathly hallows sold 8.3 mil copies to a population of around 300 million (US) (3%) in one day. Harry potter shows a trend toward the population accepting the book, .03% says they have crazy/weird people too.

Conversely, according to a study conducted throughout 2007 and 2008 by Lower Saxony's Criminal Research Institute, one in twenty West German 15-year-old males claim membership in a neo-Nazi faction. Considering this population varies between 2.5 to 3 million, that means Germany has (based on a very small population slice) 125,000 to 150,000 active, card carrying members of the Nazi party.

Does that mean all Germans are Facists. No because for every 1 that is wrong there are 19 good ones. Don't use small slices of the population or freakish behaviour by a small set to label whole people, that's kinda what the Nazis did.

"this just proves how different Japan culture is if they are willing to make a manga version of the bio of the most vilest man in history"

It was my understanding that manga was a very wide-spread and far more socially-acceptable medium in Japan than comics are in the west. So someone in Japan making a manga version of Mein Kampf isn't all that different from someone writing a biography of Hitler, is it? (Ok, it's a bit odd as it's a straight-up adaptation of an existing book into manga format so maybe the comparison to a third-party biogrpahy isn't approprtiate.)

Actually, nevermind, I dunno.

Not that it matters all that much, but - contrary to popular belief - "Mein Kampf" is not and has never been banned in Germany. While the state enforces its copyright laws, thereby rendering publication and sale of the book in Germany illegal, a "ban" would mean further restrictions.

"Stalin killed off 20 million of his own people while Hitler singled out the Jews and tortured/killed a couple million. Whoever complains the loudest gets heard. Apparently the remaining Russians were too busy starving to complain about how they were treated."

(1) " killed/tortured a couple million " ? Ignoring the idea that if one dictator killed millions more than another dictator this presumably in your mind makes dictator number 2 not-as-bad - some historical reality for you. Hitler killed, worked to death and executed in gas ovens some six million Jews, one million gypsies, several hundred thousand homosexuals, Christian Democrats, Communists and non-Aryans. Not to mention several million captured Russian soldiers who were kept in inhuman conditions and worked to death.

Then there's his effect on the civilian populations of the countries he conquered - Poland saw a 25% drop in population between 1939 and 1945. All dead. There's the people of the areas in Ukraine and Western Russia who starved because the Nazi war machine raped the assets of their country, the Dutch, Norwegians and Danes who found their neutral countries invaded.

And at the end of the day, let's not forget, Hitler started World War II, invading Poland in the full knowledge that it would bring France and Britain into war, and that the whole of Europe would be consumed.

" Couple of million " ? Don't you kid yourself.

" Singled out Jews " ? Hardly. Oh, he had a special hatred of the Jews, but he had no care for the needs or rights of Slavs, Dutch, Norwegians, Belgians, Poles, Greeks, French or British citizens. Hitler wanted the world order overturned so he could erect his pure-Aryan paradise, and if many millions of people had to suffer and die - well, hell, that was their problem as far as Hitler was concerned.

" Whoever complains the loudest gets heard " ? Well, the mechanism to register complaints has to be there. Stalin, having won, made sure there wasn't one. Hitler, had he won, would have done just the same.

(2) Mein Kampf is not a difficult book to get hold of in the Far East - my own copy I bought in a Delhi book-shop. So a Manga version doesn't surprise me - it's a book that out of historical curiosity, pure nosey-ness and the thrill of the naughty people want to read. However, Hitler's such a turgid writer anyone who perseveres beyond the first hundred pages is either daft or a glutton for punishment.

I, as myself beeing german and living in Munich, find this deeply disturbing. Not even the fact that this Manga has actually been created, which is gross enough but where I'd tend to say 'put that under ubiquitous japanese weirdness when it comes to misunderstanding the importance of sensibility when trying to handle unfamilar stuff', but even more the fact that so many copies have been sold over here. I mean, wtf. It's not like it has been advertised or anything.

It's a tough question, fact is, here in The Netherlands, where the book can't be sold like in Germany, you can still type it in and google and read it. If you want to read it, you can. And the Manga can be used for educational purposes.
To see how 'disturbed' the guy was.
And, we're facing the same ordeal, in a different variation, here now.

Geert Wilders. He is against the muslims, the 'allochthone', but yet he is a 'Indo' (a mix of Dutch/European and Indonesian. They were the 'labour immigrants' he hates the modern version of. He dyes his hair blond to cover it. -article-.
Btw, an idea how he looks like wothout dyed hair:

He acts like Hitler all over. And all it takes him to make people believe he's 'the good dude' is to dye his hair blonde.

What I mean tyo say by that is that people that are already 'accesible' like that are most likely to believe every word he, or hitler in his book, says. And, people that will accept it as 'the holy truth' are probably the ones that don't have it all together anyway.

I want to read Mein Kampf. It's just that it's so bloody boring I never got far. I want to know what moved that man to think like that. What goes on in a mind like that?
If I lived back then I'd be dead for sure. Gypsy-heritage, bisexual, more lesbian, and, well, I would be in the 'resistance' anyway.

Reading Mein Kampf, as a book or manga, isn't that bad. If you're sane to start with.

MadnessMonk- I applaud you. Well said!

This book is not published in germany.
45.000 sales have nothing to do with germany, and honestly a book like this will never ever reach sales like this over here in germany. calm down.

I always imagined Mein Kampf as a Dr. Seuss book.

"I'd tend to say 'put that under ubiquitous japanese weirdness when it comes to misunderstanding the importance of sensibility when trying to handle unfamilar stuff'"

If you're going to say that they're misunderstanding the importance of sensibility in this case, then you would also agree that a movie in the US with a fairly chaste, short, and tasteful sex scene also shows a misunderstanding the importance of sensibility? After all, that goes against all the sensibilities of Indian culture, where sex scenes in movies is still taboo.

I suspect you wouldn't consider that a misunderstanding of the importance of sensibility, because we wouldn't be talking about a movie released in India to Indian audiences, but one released in America to American audiences.

In the same way, we are here talking about releasing a manga in Japan to Japanese audiences. Manga do not carry the same baggage in Japan as they do in some other countries. Making a manga version of something doesn't show a misunderstanding of the importance of sensibility, because there is no violation of sensibility here. Now, if they translated this and tried to sell it in a country with a very different view of manga, sure, I'd agree that they've got a sensibility problem. But that's not what's happening here.

How exactly did you conclude those sales were in Germany?

WTF... and me want, me want now. where could I find a translated one on the net?

I think we're all missing the important question: How guro is it?

After reading the comments I am inclined to believe that there are a lot of people out there who never took political science and/ or don't know know what it even means.

Nazis = Commies. REALLY?!

Read some books before you post your ignorance for everyone to cringe at.

What gatchamandave says. Though I am still disturbed by the manga production. I would feel more safely that several historicans(also, critical German ones, we have lots of them, my history teacher is one of the best out there) and also the how it will be brought over to the Japanese youth.
If this manga will just turn out to be another Japanese fuckup with twisted idealization( Japanese are radical rassists as far as several studies and animes proved and still didn't grow out from WW II), I'll totally give up on Japanese culture.

But well, maybe I'll be too paranoid, me being a cleared out German who was forced to read brutal history romans about 3. Reich and creepy after war literature during school.

Also,anyone read „The Wave“?

Being a German myself, I must say that "Mein Kampf" is a highly overrated book. I didn't read it fully, but having read what parts I did, I learned a few things about Adolf Hitler as a person:
- He wanted to be an artist, but failed
- He wanted polticial power and did whatever it took to get it
- He thought he was the best man for the job of ruling the country (and possibly the world)
- He wasn't half as smart as he thought he was
- What he had going for him were charisma and a highly agitated populace still suffering from the WW1 reparation payments.

Considering the manga: Let people read it. I don't mind. At least as long as the general idea that Hitler wasn't a good guy remains intact.