• I finally get to be that TR fan who loves it when rob slams things I dislike but now has to see my own cherished nerd property/author get the treatment. God, it's not easy! I swear I was typing "Hey the wheel of time isn't THAT BAD" with the serious intention of correcting an internet crime, but then I came to my fucking senses.

• Sweet merciful Light, at last I'll be free! It's been TWENTY FUCKING YEARS! I can finally stop reading the Wheel of Time!

• Hey you. You're a fucking moron. Doubt you can read much more then comic books.

• Let them summarize the rest of the books for you * "GEE WOMEN SURE ARE WEIRD HUH" * Rand Ayn-Rand Thor goes SS7 and vaporizes a horde of darkspawn * Awkward making out between Rand and that woman with tons of vowels in her name (Nyneavaeveave?) * Dress talk * "WOW I JUST CANT UNDERSTAND THOSE WOMEN-FOLK" * Land of the BDSM-Babes who keeps wizards on leashes * Dress talk * "WOMEN ARE REALLY ODD" * NOTHING EVER HAPPENS * I bought the booksI am a dope I should of bought those penguin classics books that were selling cheap but i bought Robert Jordans sexual fantasies instead.

• Idi Amin FTW

• Chairman Mao makes Hitler look like a fucking choir boy!

•  Yeah, making snide remarks that basically equate to 'that fuck of an author died eating tons of junk food' are just the sort of speaking your mind the world needs.

• Because the site isn't necessarily here to have one or two people's opinions thrown up. I'm at the site for the updates on nerd news, as I'm sure many other people are, and most of the time when Rob has a negative opinion on something it's at least somewhat civil (or when it's not there's at least some humor to it). On this topic, however, there wasn't any humor being attempted, just pure flaming of a book that he doesn't like. As is stated, he's allowed to have his opinion, but presenting it in a childish manner is completely unnecessary.

• Why Rob would you make a comment about Jordan "Dying with both hands stuck in Pringles containers"? Is it because you think he was dying fat and lazy in the hospital?  To my understanding, the man battle a slow and painful disease for awhile before finally dying. I can understand slamming the books because you think they sucked, but slamming his death this way  seems very disrespectful.  The man died hard.  I know that you hold back no punches and say what you think, but damn bro, that joke was way below the belt.  

• <a href="http://www.somethingawful.com/d/news/fantasy-food-descriptions.php">Check out the other ones.</a> Wheel of Time is on there, too!

• "It is worth pointing out that the coercion automatically makes it non-consensual, though." Definitely. "I can't help imagining Jon Snow fantasizing about ice lollies in response to the phrase "Winter is Coming." LOL

• Sorry, new here. How do I delete my comments? Thank you.

• Hello

• The show was <i>so</i> much worse. I was actually going to mention that, but it seemed a bit meandery, so I deleted it. It is worth pointing out that the coercion automatically makes it non-consensual, though. The food porn is well done, but after a while it just gets silly. I can't take it seriously anymore, and since that Something Awful article about fantasy food scenes, I can't help imagining Jon Snow fantasizing about ice lollies in response to the phrase "Winter is Coming." XD

• I hated this series, quit after book 2, every character seem the same, like puppets voice by the same actor. Then i went and enjoyed 4 book of the Sword of Truth, thats good stuff

• There's so much hate on here from people who quit early. Way to judge a series that got way better after you bailed. I agree books 6-10 were a chore and 11 was mediocre but they've been kickass since Sanderson took the helm.

• Yes, that is a valid point (edit: not that your opinion needs my validation). It's a tough one. As bad as it was in the book, though, it was handled even worse on the TV show. At least in the book Drogo was fairly gentle the first time, and seemed to wait for her to give some kind of consent first (for what that's worth, coerced as it was). I wasn't a big fan of Daeny's behaviour regarding "sexual empowerment" in the fifth book either. It felt a little fan-servicey. She's still a good character overall though, and Martin still handles her sexuality with a *bit* of tact IMO. I enjoy the food porn, though. That might go to explaining why my waistline has gone to shit in my adult years.

•  YMMV and all. The characters are certainly more fleshed out, and there isn't the same systematic generalizing that you get in WoT. Mainly, it was whenever the topic of sex-as-empowerment comes up. I found the Dany/Drogo relationship all sorts of horrible. There are lots of good foundations for a loving relationship; serial rape isn't one of them. That said, I do actually like ASoIaF. But when that particular theme shows up, it makes me cringe. (That and the food porn.)

• Not sure if I have the energy for any more internet debating, but here I am typing anyway. Here goes... While I'd agree that women in the WoT story are treated better, the female characters come across as under-developed and very similar to each other IMO. ASoIaF certainly heaps the suffering on the women, but I've never felt like GRRM was trying to say that kind of thing is okay. Rather, it seems to me he feels that in the types of societies in that exist in his world, women would most likely get treated really badly. I think that by not shying away from that he's trying to illustrate how unfair those attitudes are. He handles war the same way. The female characters in ASoIaF are also more fleshed out I'd say. Brienne the Bold is one of my favourite characters in the series. That said, GRRM did invent the world that his characters inhabit, and he certainly didn't have to make it so grim. I've seen people level that criticism before, and it has validity. I'm not sure if I'd enjoy the series as much as I do if it wasn't, though. What that says about me probably isn't flattering. ^_^

• Pol Pots too.  Get your full set of Pol Pots here . Stainless steel. Strong enough to repel gun fire. now there is a horrifying Movie mash up Moulin Khmer Rouge. It's a Musical!

• Hey asshat, in case Dr. Abraxas' point isn't clear enough: fuck off!

• I haven't even heard of the Wheel of Time until Rob posted it here. So, what's your point again?

• Hear, hear.

• It's the best form of comedy after all.

• Calm down Sheldon. Why don't you have your mom make you some Hot Pockets... that always cheers you up.

• Over sensitive much? Give it a rest.

• DANG this series is STILL GOING?!

• indeed :) i believe i shall move the mayan calandar another minute closer to oblivions :D

• stalin. everybody forgets stalin. just because that mustache was more bad assed than hitler. also - how about Caligula? or Enobarbus?

• Ia! Ia! PENIS ftagn! Did that help with your eldritch blues? If not, I can see about sacrificing some virgins or something.

• thanks :) that almost makes up for the eldritch depression this Jason B caused me :(

• Frankly, that was the real reason I didn't make a dick joke: you don't step into the maestro's spotlight.

• darth - he's certainly not worth your time. he's got no sense of humor, which is about the worst fate short of death that can befall anyone. getting into a nerd rage arguement is one thing, but, this guy...this is the type of nerd-rage-poster who'll go on and on and on, needing to be right. ps - the PENIS jokes, i make those.

• Ah, irony...

•  The chicken that is not a chicken! It's no chicken... it's <i>evil incarnate</i>.

• You flat out called me a liar. You were the one who took the level of discourse down a notch, so keep your finger-wagging to yourself. The libel bit was a joke, in response to your nonsense about Rob hearing from Tor's lawyers. If *that* was a joke on your part, then the egg's on me. Sure didn't seem like it was meant in jest, though. "I'm not going to address the rest of your comments because frankly, you fail to rise to the occasion of it." This part is just priceless nonsense. Well done. And I don't give half a damn about your dick. It was a nice attempt at deflection through petulance and rock-kicking, though.

• oh, dude, dude dude dude, i gave you the benefit of the doubt (which is a lot more than you gave me or anyone else on this thread for that matter). it's alright to say, 'i was wrong, sorry', you're not going to get killed, not even by me. i've been wrong a lot, plenty of times, and i freely admit. (CIP - i was wrong about Prometheus being an automatic letdown. i was also wrong about Avatar (camerons) back in the day) but after i say that i was only kidding, for you to insist that somehow my jokes need to conform to somebody's notion of logic just shows you either didn't comprehend what i said, are unwilling to comprehend what i said, or have no concept of humor whatsoever. and i'm going to leave it at that. you just go on, doing you're thing, you've done yourself a lot more damage throughout this post than i ever could inflict with all of my eldritch power. congrats, i guess?

• I know what you're trying to do, and I respect it, but my answer is still the same: come up with a better argument.

•  Nice to see your defensive posturing at the start of your comments. That's designed to legitimize me and dehumanize my arguments, and therefore, make yours look sane. Why should I bother to respond on any level to anything you say after that? Actually, I will say one thing: you have no idea what libel is. I'm not going to address the rest of your comments because frankly, you fail to rise to the occasion of it. And I'm sure that you'll respond with some sort of inane internet retort about my dick or something, as though you've established your street cred and "won" the argument. Be my guest, internets.

• you don't get it; i wasn't trying to make any argument at all. you didn't really think any of that was serious? my point was to try to calm the guy down by inserting a totally illogical non-sequitor. maybe you're new here but shit like that is sort of my schtick. whenever possible i try to diffuse the serious internet bizz. that's all. and look at the rest of the thread too while you're at it and see that it all turned out well.

• That's understandable. I was a bit surprised that one of Rob's main objections to the series was the misogyny, when he's such a fan of A Song of Ice and Fire. Which, to be honest, has its own misogynistic tendencies. (Gets can of worms.) (Gets can opener.) (Opens.)

• Holy shit, spare me the histrionics. I never said all the bullshit you mentioned didn't happen, and I absolutely did listen to the damn book. All that shit shouldn't have taken near the page count it did, so piss off. Criticizing Jordan for dicking around for thousands of pages is absolutely justified. There's nothing lazy about it. GRRM can be criticized for the exact same thing, though he's nowhere near Jordan's level of twiddling yet. Jordan's editors didn't write the bloody books, he did, and he needs to bear the blame. It doesn't invalidate the series, but it is perfectly understandable that someone would decide that enough was enough after book six. And if you think Tor is suing someone over some internet blather, you've got get out of the fantasy books and look around at reality every now and then. Or maybe *I* should sue *you* for libel...

•  Sorry, but it's still a bad argument. That's like saying you don't like heavy metal because nickelback exists.

•  I think Jordan made a few missteps with the Matrim story arc (just get us to the Daughter of the Nine Moons and the Tower of Ghenj already!), but I totally understand where he went with the Rand, Egwene, Elayne, and Perrin story arcs.

• The Battle of Dumai's Wells is what I'm referring to, as well as Rand getting captured by Elaida's Aes Sedai lackeys and then having to have in depth conversations with Lews Therin about how to break free from their control. And that doesn't even include Perrin leaving the Two Rivers to meet up with Rand at Cairhein, the White Tower in exile at Salidar, the formation of the Asha'Man, and a whole slew of other points. I'm guaranteeing you didn't read the damn book, because that all happened there, or you should stop with the audiobooks altogether. Sure, the series has problems starting in book 8, but that's largely because Jordan's editors took over, and decided to put out Path of Daggers/Winter's Heart/Crossroads of Twilight rather than condense them into one or two books (Knife of Dreams has no problems whatsoever). I'm pretty sure that they got editorial control back in order for the last Jordan book, since it just flowed way better than books 8 to 10. Sanderson IS doing a good job wrapping up the series, and it reads very well. He's as faithful as he can be to what makes Jordan's series so great. I think it's become a meme and a trope for people to bitch about the Wheel of Time being a long series. And it pisses me off, because frankly, so are George Martin's A Song of Ice and Fire and Goodkind's Sword of Truth series. And I like them all. Trying to get me to say that the series gets bloated isn't my point. The point is that books 1-7 are really good. Books 8-10 have problems. Books 11-13 don't. And that's where the meme pisses me off- it's a blanket statement designed to nonchalantly throw away the entire series without thinking it through. It's not an intelligent argument. It's lazy, and fucking annoying. And to belittle someone on their death bed because they "didn't do what you wanted them to?" With a book series? That's far, far, far below Mr. Bricken and the people here. Mr. Bricken, I'm pretty sure Tor is going to have words with you and your lawyer.

• Who are you and what have you done with our Elder God?! "i'll <s>agree with you</s> <b>write a lengthy erotic vignette about Neytiri and the Cabbage Merchant's inter-Avatar adventure featuring fleshlights, shifters, and copious amounts of vegetable washing</b> if it makes you <s>happy</s> <b>writhe in terror</b>. ...Phew. Crisis averted.

• I met RJ back in 1991 when he was signing Dragon Reborn at a local SF book store in NYC.  He mentioned he was planning on a 8-9 book series and had several ideas for a standalone prequel novel set several centuries before book 1.  IMO he lost control of all the secondary characters and the plot-lines they were involved with. And while some have bitched and moaned about him dropping a character from a novel, I thought this was a great idea.  After all, not all people are doing anything exciting all the time.  In Dragon Reborn most of Rand's scenes were in the beginning and end of the book, all he did was walk to Tear for the entire book, except for the assassination attempt.  Everything that happen with Rand was explained as those who followed him learned how he was effecting the world around him.

• The Way of Kings took a little while to grab my attention (much like Mistborn did), but if you can slog through the first few chapters, it will TAKE OVER YOUR LIFE.  I think I got about four hours of sleep in the three days it took me to get through that last 900 pages; luckily, I'm a librarian, so when I tell my boss "sorry, I was up late reading," she believes me...anyway, I think it's a very promising start to a great series.  The characters are likeable and interesting, and I'm excited to see where he goes with it.  If you've read any of his other books, it's a lot more deep and polished than, say, Elantris was; he's much more experienced now, and it shows.

• As do I.

• But isn't misery more fun for you, Doc?

• Wow. A bit of a low blow there, Rob. But then again, can anyone clue me in on when and who is acceptable for us to take potshots at without fear of repercussions? I mean, the only person I could think of is Hitler, but that's because he's a murderous shithead.

• Oh, I don't care that he disagrees with me, but people often look to similar tastes to determine whether another person's suggestions are worth looking into.  Rob has made some excellent recommendations in some areas, but I've never taken any of his literary suggestions because I've had reason to question his taste. 

• aw. oh, i'll agree with you if it makes you happy

• Have you read Way of Kings? After enjoying the hell out of Warbreaker, I was thinking of giving it a shot, but I'm definitely wary of reading the first in what is proposed to be a series of ten books (all of which I'm sure will weigh in at over a thousand pages).

•  Sometimes I have opinions about things. Then someone disagrees with them and I feel sad.

• Rob, if I disagree with you so adamantly on this series of books, how can I consider your opinion valid on any other books? 

• Evil Chickens and morphing the series into the fantasy version of Atlas Shrugged.

•  You did not say this,you were not here...

• "Whoa..."

•  I stopped reading halfway through Lord of Chaos. I put a bookmark in it, put it on a shelf and that bookmark is still there...five years later.

• I have read the book (or rather listened to it), and it sure as hell felt like nothing happened, with the events you mention taking place over the course of 1000+ pages. Once I read reviews of the subsequent books and found out how little happens in those massive tomes I gave up. If Sanderson does a good job wrapping the whole thing up I might come back and finish it off some day. Really, I understand liking WoT and even sticking up for it (I certainly enjoyed the first 5 books), but lets not pretend that it didn't get bloated as hell from book six and on.

• I kind of wish this post had been about Terry Goodkind so we could make evil chicken jokes. 

• The spite must flow!

• why, that almost sounds sinister. i'll need to snort up some spice to gain the clairvoyance to peer into this future!

• dude, i was trying to use humor to smooth over a prickly situation. thanks.

• I think the Sanderson edited books have brought the series back to it's early/good era. Be nice to see it end, I was 20 when WoT #1 came out and will have two boys in high school when the last book finally comes out. Quantity normally != quality in the fiction novel world!

• With all due respect: You make a point about Rob's rant being perhaps out of line in the form his attacks took (though I'm sure he knew exactly what he was doing when he phrased himself that way) However, if you don't care about Rob's opinions....why are you here?

• "69 DUDES!!!"

• I thought the same: The idea of a webmaster being recognized for his work in 100 years would, by default, probably make TR the most successful Nerd Site in history! :)

•  {{but it does pick up afterwards}} I loved 5 (still my favorite of the series) and wasn't particularly disappointed by 6. But I cannot imagine why anyone, even a fan, would think things <i><b>picked up</i></b> after Lord of Chaos. Not for the next three books at least, through Crossroads of Twilight.

• Part of me is a tiny bit relieved I can never meet Frank Herbert. Oh! Don't ge me wrong: He sounds like he was probably a fascinating and quite decent human being, but there's always that risk--and I love his work too much to have it tainted by something so prosaic as human flaws ;) On the other hand, I'd be delighted to meet Brian Herbert.... Just as long as there are no witnesses and I have a solid alibi :D

• I do still love the series, and I'm hoping to hear things end out well--a hope that has been generally watered and fed by the few non-spoilery things I've heard about them after CoT. But I had to vote with my dollars eventually. Or lack thereof. (I "liked" for your "imaginary internet peoples" btw. {g})

• I got through Winter's Heart (next book, #9) and bailed when friends of mine (also WOT fans) read Crossroads of Twilight. I've heard Jordan improved greatly for Knife of Dreams and that Sanderson has done well for the first two books of the final trilogy. But I'm still waiting for the finale before thinking of investing again.

• We already learned that back in Book 1.

• Who's being the asshole?  Are you sure you didn't just catch your reflection as you were typing this comment? My comment had nothing to do with his health problems, which I wouldn't wish on anyone.  My comment reflected the major disappointment I felt at having read through 800 pages without the tiniest mention of the only character I was still interested in.  His unfortunate state of health and eventual death has nothing to do with my overall opinion of the series.

•  That's a shitty argument. You posit a tu quoque of "this created that" in order to discredit Rowling  (and by proxy, someone's argument). Also, it presupposes that the only answer is a negative one- Rowling could only bring about Twilight, and not, say Rick Riordan's works (or Ted Naifeh's awesome Courtney Crumrin stuff). You pigeonhole everything to fit an argument that looks like it backs you up, but in reality, just makes you an ass.

• I'm not saying he doesn't ramble on for ages, and yeah that pretty much seems to be what devides opinion on these books, but what i am saying is you should at least wait for all the facts to be in before making any snap judgements about who is alive and who is dead. Also, have you read Game of Thrones?

• And I bow to YOUR staying power.  I quit the first book after about 200 pages when I decided that if I wanted to read a story about a young naif being chased from his country home by terrifying black-robed figures on horseback, I should just go read "Lord of the Rings" again.

•  Yeah, he was giving a "fuck you" to his readers because he was FUCKING DYING. Of a bone Marrow disease. Path of Daggers/Winters' Heart/Crossroads of Twilight were around that time. Knife of Dreams was his last attempt (and best) dealing with his sickness, before he couldn't finish. Way to be an asshole, asshole.

• I like how he says "nothing happens in Lords of Chaos". Perrin and Matrim both make choices. Rand solidifies his rule over Camelyn and Cairhein. Rand gets captured by the White Tower (Elaida's group). Massive battle at the end of the book, that pretty much explains A) how the Asha'man will fight at the Last Battle B) that Mazrim Taim is a sadistic asshole C) Perrin's role at the Last Battle (Wolves! Two Rivers!) D) Rand gets tortured, learns alot from Lews Therin (well, sorta), and basicall spends the next few books dealing with Post Traumatic Stress Syndrome E) Rand gets the Aes Sedai to bow to his rule. That's going to poison his relationship with the White Tower/Elaida's faction and Egwene's group as well. But it's also going to force the Asha'man and the Aes Sedai to work together, however grudgingly. I don't remember offhand what Elayne/Nynaeve/Egwene are doing in the book. So, that's just Lords of Chaos. Did you read the book, Mr. Bricken? Or just bitch about it from afar?

• Exactly - only my disillusionment was made worse by the fact that I was in junior high when I read these books.  I had no allowance, and my only income was through babysitting and oddjobs here and there.  Twenty-five bucks I paid for that thing when it was first released, and I had the harsh realization that Jordan didn't care about my reading experience at all - he was going to milk the series for all it was worth, and he wanted me to pay for it.

• ...and  copses of trees don't forget the  copses of trees. Mind you I like this series.

• Sorry, any patience was long gone. I didn't even like Mat -- I thought his endless marches with his wooden soldiers was only bested in boredom by Egwene sitting on her ass and picking her toenails for what seemed like several books. Despite not liking Mat and having it be a relief to not read about him, I couldn't believe Jordan did that, either.  The one interesting thing going on and it was punted to the next book.  I could not take it anymore.  It felt to me like contempt for his readers.  It would be one thing if everyone else was up to interesting things, but the plot slowed to a crawl, bogged down with endless minutiae and a whole lot of nothing. That was the last WoT book I read, and I've never looked back.  I used to worry about what would happen if Jordan died before finishing the series, but as it turns out, he killed my enjoyment of it first.

• I trusted Robert Jordan to deliver, and when he didn't it killed my interest in the series.  This was years ago, and I haven't felt the inclination to pick it up again.

• I'm sure he does, but it's "too little, too late" for me.  Robert Jordan just happened to flip the switch of my fandom from "I care!" to "Yeah, I'm done with this."  That, with all of the other reservations I had about the series, ended it for me.

•  That's the reason I've yet to read A Dance with Dragons.  A Game of Thrones was interesting at first, but Martin will happily (or, considering his publication rate, perhaps "grudgingly" is a better description) write 1000 pages where honestly not that much of importance really happens.  And with no end in sight, and an increasingly feeling that the whole thing is just being milked as a money train until the author dies.

• it's terrible, meeting famous people, they always dissapoint you. i imagine it would be like meeting OSC after reading Ender's Game and knowing nothing else.

• Hear, hear

• Having met Robert Jordan, I feel absolutely comfortable in accusing both the man and his books of rampant, horrible misogyny.

• Meh, Rob always turns into an ignorant douchebag whenever he makes a Wheel of Time post and demonstrates all of his greatest failings as a would-be journalist. Saying RJ died eating junk food is both crass and absurd. Have you seen any photos of him in his last days? He lost a ton of weight due to his illness and all he cared about was dictating Wheel of Time scenes and notes so that his fans could read the ending of his long-running series. I can understand anyone who criticizes the series, since Jordan certainly went too far with his excesses as Wheel of Time went on, but the stupid, bitter personal attacks on the dead writer are just fucking pathetic.

• he has pretty much the whole next book for him.

• WAIT....WHAT? Mistborn table top you say? Interesting.

• err.....you should have had a little more patience. Trust me.

• the numbers are hard because they've been reading FFF. i saw what you did there, 7. and 12324, i think you've been reading those braxy fics too hard!

• MATH MAKE ME BRIAN AM HEAT UP AND MUCH HURTING. Y NUMBERS SO HARD?

• Because he was one of the three main characters - the Ta'veren.  No way would any of them die until closer to the end of the series, and this was only Book 8.  :P

• I love it when Rob trashed Jordan.  I like seeing someone ready to speak his mind.

• Did not realize he was doing all that. I felt the last book of the Evil Librarian series was a little rushed so that he could get on the WoT series. Also was expecting a 5th book in the series so was sad to see it wrapped up in 4.

• There's a "canon" containing LOTR, Harry Potter, and wheel of time?  God help us.  There's some powerful fantasy out there I'm sure will be studied in 50 years time, but it has no connection to this horrific canon. 

• i'd expect him to return. flatter and possibly more accordion like than before.

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