Sometimes I think it's dumb luck when Warner actually manages to put out a popular DC Comics movie. Based on the rumors I've heard over the years concerning the Shazam, Captain Marvel movie, TPTB are absolutely clueless about how to make a great family friendly superhero flick.

The fact the publishing side has no input with the movie side just makes the whole situation worse.

Let's start things out on a pervvy note. Where's the Black Canary or Zatanna movie? A superhero in fishnets and I'm there (okay maybe)

Seriously though, I don't get how these adaptions are so hard. You have almost 100 yeards of material to draw on to see what worked and what didn't and the movies should act like a greatest hits adaption.

Not to druge up that whole hornets nest yet but I wouldn't be surprised if Transformers ROTF is making all the studio heads rethink their approach.

"Just lots of explosions and CGI= 400 million, hmmmmm. Maybe we don't have to put effort into these things after all."

dont forget a rumoured ghost rider 2, hey, I saw it on Imbd awhile back, im too lazy so go check for yourself.

Let's see, WB is dropping the ball, Fox is all kinds of screwing up.

Is there a studio we could say is good to geeks?

Human Target, Rob. Human Target.

@JOE: Marvel Studios.

It's really sad that WB can't make a good DC superhero movie franchise outside of Batman to save its life.

But of course, just because Marvel is attempting to wrap all these films together doesn't mean they are going to do it well. I hope they do. But it may end up being a horrible idea that totally won't work on film.

Maybe DC is right to hedge their bets and not rush projects through just to lead to other projects...

Yeah, but isn't Marvel Studios just Marvel's Film department?
They still have to work with another studio to get some kind of actual production and distribution, right?

DC has had a huge success with The Dark Knight, but it's also kind of doomed them. Here's why:

Could you see the reimagined, Christian Bale Batman as part of the Justice League?

Of course not, and that's a big part of the problem. If you want him to be part of a team, pal around with other superheroes, or even have a sidekick, you really need to move away from some of the emo-darkness that made the character so cool. That's why The Brave And The Bold works as well as it does.

I remember reading an article about if Batman could be a real person, and scientists argued that yes, he could be, but not for very long. The dietary requirements and physical exertion would end your career after just a few years. Now, how does that fit in with Superman or Green Lantern, who have powers far beyond mere mortals? I, for one, don't want to see him stuck in the Watchtower for 90 minutes.

Marvel is getting smart with their Avengers movie. They're looking for lower budget actors, a fully CGI Hulk, and putting out their movies closer together to lead up to the Avengers coming to the big screen. I just don't think DC and WB are ready to make that kind of committment.

Well are we at all suprised that they have their heads jammed up their asses? I mean without dark knight they have nothing the supes reboot blew some serious bayformer destructicles. They are gonna green light the green lantern (no pun intended) cuz ryan reynolds signed on and they already filmed jonah hex. Other then that they have nothing and no clue what we the true consumers and critics of these franchises want. When in the end its simple. Read the friggin comics before writing the script and make a movie close to the source material.

Personally, I'm pretty excited about the combined universe that Marvel is putting together, especially how many times they missed out on doing that in the past (such as having Mr. Fantastic make a cameo in the third Spider-Man movie to parallel the comics; that would have been, well, fantastic).

They've already tied in Hulk with Iron Man, they had the underpinnings of Captain America dropped in the Hulk (the Weapon Plus program, which in turn references Weapon X), and the bonus scene in Iron Man not only set up the Avengers but at least alluded to the fact that there were lots of superheroes out there. The best DC has ever managed to do was in Batman Forever, where Wayne states that Grayson's circus troupe is half-way to Metropolis.

Underwhelming.

@mike:

I agree, it is better just tome make some quality projects and avoid the whole superhero team movie. I think an Avengers movie would suck, since there's no room for character development.

However, how excited was the nerd community when the Superman/Batman movie poster was up in I AM LEGEND? I thought it was awesome, and even looked forward to it. The two of them have had some great fights, from The Dark Knight Returns to Batman: Hush.

How long can WB resist the call of money when it's screaming in their ears?

The very fact that they are still making superhero movies is proof that there is no god.

@GUMBERCULES!: As far as character development goes in an Avengers movie, I agree, any ensemble piece is going to suffer in that particular department. However, that's why it's best to do the initial development (origin, etc) in each character's individual film. We wouldn't need to go into the origins of the Hulk or Iron Man, for example, because we already know that (beyond the "we already know it"ness that comes from comic adaptations, that is) and the film can instead focus on the new heroes, the villains, or the actual plot (and if it's done well, it does all three).

So I guess I agree with you, but I'm just more optimistic. ;)

What isn't being said is that DC is the junior partner in this business.

Several years ago, at an event after Comic Con I was talking to a Big Name from DC, who was preparing himself for a week's worth of meetings with the suits from WB, where they would be offering suggestions on the various directions the big 3 characters should consider moving in.

He was less than amused.

I used to lean on the side of DC when comparing the two big comicbook publishers, but now it's obvious that Marvel has the bulk of the great characters. DC still arguably has the "three biggies" Superman, Batman, and Wonder Woman (although they themselves admit that Superman is a challenge to revive on the big screen, which is BS, and Wonder Woman hasn't seen her spotlight since the days of the Linda Carter TV series). What else does DC have? Green Lantern, Flash, Aquaman, Justice League, Teen Titans. They need to develop BETTER COMIC BOOKS and then they can adapt them to the big screen. Marvel has focused on the stories and the characters forever -- they have so many more franchises to choose from. DC needs to spend some bucks on WRITERS.

My final thought is a quote from the second Punic War. After the battle of Cannae, Hannibal could possibly have sacked Rome, but instead decided to be cautious, and never got closer to Rome than he did that day. His cavalry commander, Maharbal, said, "Hannibal, you know how to gain a victory, but not how to use one." The same could be said of DC's movie plans.

i used to be dc only for a short period of time then i realized how mediocre their comics were, the only redeeming character they have is batman and in most of the story arcs i have read they drill the fact that his parents were shot in front of him in almost every issue.

dc's writers aren't that talented at all compared to some of the shit marvel puts out. they have x-amounts of universes in marvel where huge story arcs take place (civil war, zombies, house of m) and they make all the comics in their little universe tie in, i mean look at the list of the other books outside of just the main eight or so issues of house of m!

marvel also succeeds bc of the fact that if you look at their characters they are more relatable in a sense than dc's. i mean im not saying we can all shoot laser beams from our eyes or retract fucking claws from our knuckles but i mean on a personal level they seem more human than say superman who just flies around in his tights and is all gay and the like

i am proud to say that i am a marvel supporter and hearing this slap on them from the dc execs is just fucking gay. marvel didnt have their own production company like dc/warner bc they are independent of some big daddy like warner taking care of it, if they want to do another x-men film they could who would stop them? fox would be working with them if they still have the license or what not.

all i have to say is wait till 2013 when you douches lose supes then well see what you have left

How much of DC's problem is due to "branding", as in they don't want to try anything new with their characters for fear it'll somehow "tarnish the brand".
The Dark Knight was dark because that was Batman. Superman Returns was weak because nothing challenged Superman. And live-action movies about Wonder Woman, JLA, Flash, etc. never get off the ground... while the animated versions are sometimes awesome. Just look at what the creators did with the JLA animated series.

Hmm... maybe that's the idea: make animated movies. After all, Batman: Mask of the Phantasm was better received than Batman Returns. And like the poster said, The Brave and Bold is a fun cartoon series.
It's pretty easy to make a JLA animated movie since they already have the voice actors and it's much easier to animate special effects than try to blend them in with live-action.

Then market the movie as a full-length comic book rather than a "dark direction" or some such. Get adults nostalgic for their comic-book reading days and appeal to kids at the same time.
If the producers need help making a movie about characters and story, go get help from the Pixar people.

Then again, does DC already have this idea wrapped up in the form of straight-to-DVD releases and they've already decided no one would pay $10 to see an animated Wonder Woman movie in the theaters?

I want to a live action Baby Batman movie. Every ten minutes some cop goes "It's a BABY!"

I've been wondering about the Avengers movie. It certainly could be good, like the ultimates, but it could also be overwhelming and or campy like Spiderman 3 and the Fantastic Four movies. I'm not sure that putting all of the characters together would work on the big screen, so Marvel's plan may be a poor one. Also, considering DC just had one of the most successful movies of all time, superhero or not, why is anyone concerned with their movie strategy? They can make batman 3, reboot superman, make Green Lantern, make Wonder Woman, etc.

Both DC and Marvel have huge libraries of great characters and great writers, and I don't prefer one company over the other. Anyone who reads comics know that writers and artists are always switching companies anyway, so there must be great work on either side.

The question I'm always asking when watching superhero movies is "why don't they just use animation?" If I was in a position of power in either DC or Marvel I would really put more of a focus on animated movies, and put them strait to dvd. Big budget movies have so much CGI that they are basically animation already, but complete animation in much cheaper. DC is already dong a pretty good job on this front, but who else wants a greater focus on animation from both companies?

typo, I meant "straight to dvd"

DC makes better animation (both in cartoon and movie form) than Marvel. Marvel makes better live action movies (forgetting about the crap they released in the 80's and 90's) than DC. Each should stick to what they are good at.

it should also be noted that marvel has some of their stuff done by other studieo's Dc does not have that option only warner brother's who have shown other then batman they do not know how to mine dc characters plus marvel gets people who know the source material on their films. dc can even do that.

DC + Warners = Fail. I'm sorry, but where's the JLA movie? Where's the Superman sequel? And where is Wonder Woman? All they've been able to pull out of their butts is Dark Knight and it was total LUCK that they got all the right players for that series. Nolan doesn't even want to come back.

They're so chickenshit about making movies MAKE THEM ALREADY.

Just don't make them suck.

The end.

I'd rather wait for a quality DC film than see three crappy Marvel movies each summer. Period.

> The question I'm always asking when watching superhero movies is "why don't they just use animation?"

Unless Pixar is attached, animated movies don't make big money at the box office. WB wants another Dark Knight.

But, yeah, DC does a much better job with their animated efforts, even though that all seems to be the product of the Burnett / Dini / Timm generation. Remember that horrible Superman: Brainiac Attacks movie - that's what happens when DC gets away from the BTAS vets.

Maybe you know this, and maybe you don't, but of course DC doesn't have any clue on their movie plans, THEY HAVE NO SAY IN THEM! The only say DC has is when they put out those straight to DVD animated movies which they help produce and some of the animated series, otherwise it's all WB and that's it.
There's a blog post out there from a former DC editor who said how horrified the people within DC were when more and more information started to come out about the Catwoman movie and not being able to do anything about it other then try to put out a good monthly book.

*Nods*

Kneel before Marvel!

Muhahahaha!!!

Anyways, I agree with the posters. Marvel's dominating.

I think it's mostly due to Marvel's courage. They aren't afraid to try new things, some suck, others don't. That's why Daredevil, Electra, Blade, and Howard the Duck all have their own movies, while Wonder Woman's still in the animated version.

If DC stopped using their "Only Superman & Batman make us money" policy, then maybe things would be different.

Still, things aren't different. Marvel's on top (....), while DC's still trying to convince Moore that they're sorry.

Nuff said.

Geoff:

True, animated movies outside of Pixar do not make for box office success. But, since they are cheap to produce (relatively) and they can make considerable money on the dvds if they do not bother releasing them to theaters. I think that would be a smarter gamble than a 300 million dollar movie which might be a flop.

I do remember that Brainiac attacks movie, but please don't remind me.

I swear, DC can be so unpredictable sometimes. You know what? I personally believe that the real reason why DC is stalling movie plans is because of the unbelievable success of The Dark Knight. I think it's the pressure to make the other movies just as good that's a bit of a problem.

"But, since they are cheap to produce (relatively) and they can make considerable money on the dvds if they do not bother releasing them to theaters. I think that would be a smarter gamble than a 300 million dollar movie which might be a flop."

Well, that's the thing - they already do that (and to much greater effect than Marvel), but they can't really turn up the volume without compromising the quality due to the fact that there's actually so few people (the ones I cited, plus Murikami) they trust to run the movies to their usual standards.

"I personally believe that the real reason why DC is stalling movie plans is because of the unbelievable success of The Dark Knight. I think it's the pressure to make the other movies just as good that's a bit of a problem."

Yeah, I'd agree with that. It's part of the problem with DC - Superman and Batman are just *so much bigger* than any other superheroes, in terms of worldwide recognition (Spidey's gotten close recently thanks to the movies being very savvily marketed), that it creates somewhat unrealistic expectations for everything else. WB's obviously looking for "The Next Dark Knight" now, which is going to be a problem for DC characters since while I think you *might* pull off an Iron Man level success with Flash and GL because, let's face it, the core characters are more interesting that Iron Man to begin with so you've got a better base to work off of.

But only Batman and Superman (and Spidey) can take things to that next level. Let's just say that the only place Aquaman is going to get the biggest opening weekend of all time is in Entourage.

The reason that there are so many Marvel movies is because there are many studios working on their properties, whereas DC only has WB. Let's say that the superhero movie budget for WB is 10 dead parents (common currency in comic book continuity). The Dark Knight cost 15 dead parents over 2 years. That only leaves them 2.5 dead parents per year to make anything else.

Sure, Iron Man and Spiderman both cost 7 dead parents apiece, but Sony and Paramount were making them separately.

WB does DC-animated DVDs well. They do TV shows decent (Smallville is in its 9th season now). Superman Returns was good, if you like the creepy, stalker version of Kal-El. Still, they have just as many iconic heroes as Marvel, if not more. The two Batman films have proven that they can do well at the box office.

So, the formula should go like this: Heroes with more than one comic book title (Supes, Bats, GL) get a blockbuster budget with a top name cast, director and writer. Heroes with only one title (Wonder Woman, Green Arrow, Teen Titans) should get a moderate budget (less than $80M), a fanboy writer/director who will work cheap and do the project out of love (Kevin Smith/Green Arrow for example). Vertigo titles and built for cable TV. Either ongoing series or miniseries that are for older audiences. Look at Scalped, 100 Bullets, Sandman, Preacher, Hellblazer, Books of Magic, Transmetropolitan and think Spike, USA, SyFy, Cinemax, Showtime or HBO. Minimal scripting would need to be done. You just need a director and a cast of "fresh faces."

I think that DC's fumbling has more to do with WB's management and the Shuster and Siegel Superman suit, than DC dropping the ball.

Marvel is dominating? I beg to differ. Sure, they have MORE movies, but look at the quality. Fantastic Four movies are terrible, Hulk movies are just OK not great, Spider-man 3 was garbage, Wolverine was barely average at best, the last X-men movie was not nearly as good as the first two. Iron Man was fine, but I watched it right after the Dark Knight and sorry but Iron Man was not nearly as good as a comic movie can be as shown by Nolan.

So give me two Batman movies and Superman Returns over the huge pile of crap that are Marvel movies. I'll take quality over quantity any day.