Based solely (and unfairly) on the pictures accompanying item 2, I'd have to say the nerds win this fight. I'd much rather ogle our elf friend at a convention then be stuck seated behind that guy at a game.

Neat idea for a list. I've always maintained that there are geeks/nerds in every facet of existence. If you obsess over something be it Star Trek, anime, the NHL, Royal Doulton collecting, or John Grisham novels, you're a geek. Some obsessions have just somehow managed to avoid the stigma associated with unchecked mania.

I remember sitting outside on my balcony one evening and overhearing a neighbor talking on the phone out on his balcony. The guy was speaking quite passionately in what sounded like total gibberish to me at first. Then I realized that he was talking to someone about the stats and prospects for his fantasy football team. It sounded almost exactly like someone discussing their D&D or WoW character. I really had to ask myself at that point, "How is that I'm considered a nerd, but this guy isn't?"

Thank god I played varsity hockey and tennis while dashing home from practice to watch BTAS [and throwing a temper tantrum as a kid when i realised that our playoff game would run up against MASK] and got the best of both worlds as a result. Being trapped in one or the other... that'd suck.

FWIW - Kansas, WVU, Cuse and... sigh... Duke. Kansas over WVU in the finals.

Great list!

I don't usually try to plug my webcomic, but I wrote a comic about this a few months ago, and it's become my most viewed strip...

[url]http://www.stupidinventor.com/2009/11/09/comic-8-sports-fans/[/url]

This list is just perfect. I've been saying this for ages, so it's nice to see it put together in literary form!

Don't forget: Mutually Boring Conversations.

Ever been stuck listening to a sports nerd go on and on about crap you don'e care about? It's exactly the same when we talk about our stuff to them. It's also our revenge.

It's how I kill those kinds of conversations, and escape. I just switch topics to comics or something and get my revenge for the last 10 minutes of mind-numbing crap I don't care one bit about. After that, They know not to bother me with sports.

That and my "Oh, is this about things that bounce?" types of ignorant questions that totally belittle sports, in the same way that "Oh is this about comics?" belittles my interests.

Just yesterday I got stuck listening to a lengthy conversation about golf that would put any "Who would win in a fight: Batman or the Punisher?" style argument between the sweatiest and greasiest of nerds to shame.
After I was finally able to pull my co-worker away from the discussion, I turned to him and said, "Fucking nerds."

"Fantasy Match-ups" needs to be added to this list, be it roleplaying games, fantasy football/baseball/etc, basketball tournament predictions, Superman vs. Batman arguments, etc. All geekdoms do it. "My team can beat your team!" is just as hotly debated as "My superhero beats your superhero!" with about as many variables.

Good list, though. I've been thinking this for a long time.

dude, you first 3 are

-likes wearing t-shirts
-enjoys being around people with similar interests
and
-has a lot of knowledge about a subject which they're interest in.

wow. the similarities are FUCKING UNCANNY.

"Oh, you played sports in highschool?"
"Yes - I represented my state at the national event."
"Wow - you must be really great at -insert mainstream sport here-!"
"Actually, I'm a fencer. I get to stab people with swords."

I have had this conversation too many times with sports fanatics who then somehow try to deny the fact that fencing is a sport because it involves swords. XD

Yes. And neither of our two groups are quandrupeds, cold blooded or lithovours. So?

It's kind of like reminding the Israelis and the Palestinians that they're both semetic peoples... Who gives a crap?

Jock worship the Cult of Cock -- a parade of effigies to our animalistic past, ritualized feaux-warfare, when physical might was all that mattered. The whole point of organizing into societies and establishing rules was to end that reign of terror. They are an affront to civilization itself.

How many millions/billions or dollars are thrown into professional sports that could go to feeding the hungry, housing the homeless, etc? Yes, this argument is totally true of movies and action figures too. But action figure collectors are statistically 83% less likely to date-rape you.

Jocks are evil. Nerds markedly are less evil. End of story.

Nerds don't get in your face about how they are going to kick your ass except to under nerdlings.

This is an awesome list.
Nothing else need be said!

The similarities are even broader here in Oz, where picking a sporting team is like fucking enlisting. Once you pick, you're stuck with it. Just like my gaming orientation, even when I'm surrounded by Anime fanatics. People think we go together, but...we don't. We are at war with each other, in secret.

I think it was Shakespeare who put it best: "Comic books easily distinguish nerds from jocks--nerds read epic conflicts of good vs. evil, while jocks memorize decimal statistics about whichever team plays closest to their house."

I just want to say that sports nerds are worse and insanely guilty of all the horrible anti-social activities that people accuse us geeks of, yet they do not get the negative social stigmata that we do.

Sports obsessives are praised and coddled with "oh, he's just into sports" at family gatherings, where everyone was expected to sit down and be in rapture and awe of a televised NFL game, like it's some kind of insane "nut cult" religious broadcast, while I, as a geek kid was always chided by my parents "not to sit off in a corner and talk about Star Wars or that comic book stuff" with my cousins.

I know sports geeks who completely will stop all conversation except "where's my beer and/or crackers?" when there is a football game on a good forty feet away from them on a 12 inch screen, a minor college football game that they have no interest in and cannot possibly hear, yet they will stay silent, hypnotised and keep their eyes glued to that screen, which is why I love to go to that horrible fish restaurant when the folks visit.

I have another one.

At one time, women steered clear of either intrest, but now more and more are admitting their love for it (or realizing it's a great way to be in the vacinity of a lot of ogling guys).

one of the good lists ever for this list shows that sports fans and nerds are actully so similar that their loves make their two worlds actuly one. as for number one. the cubs winning a world series and star wars would fit number one perfectly for examples. since both even though they have shown signs of needing to die fans keep them going and going.

I love nerddom and I love sports, in the UK the two are not exclusive to each other and you don't have to choose.

I'm proud to say I'm a member of both lists.

I'm one of those few who have the "ability" to fit into both categories, although I will always be a nerd.

That being said, I'd get beside that cosplay chick any day of the week,

I can happily say I am both a comic book geek and a football fan. As a woman, I have found it to be more socially acceptable to be a sports fan. When I tell people I read comics, they say "Girls read?" When I tell people I'm a football fan, they ask me who I think has a shot at playoffs. I don't know if this is because sports fans have better social skills or what. No one has ever given me grief for sitting at the bar watching the Ravens game but when I go to a comic book shop, I am talked down to frequently. What book does your boyfriend read, etc.

Just watch the pretty cool movie "Big Fan" with (admitted nerd) Patton Oswalt. Replace all Giants/Football/Sports references with nerd obsessions, and you have your typical pop culture fanboy.

I fit in both camps and I am proud to say so. My sports obsession is the Packer because there is no other football team as far as I am concerned. I am also a card carrying cartoon, movie and video game nerd! I am the guy that people go to when they can't beat that one part of that one game (emerald and ruby weapons from ffVII for example) and if someone wants to know who that one guy the packers had that they got from LA and played in the superbowl season and then that was it I say Andre Risen.
I think back to high school and getting stuffed into trash cans by the football team becuase I was reading my DMG or players handbook in english and I laugh.

I've noticed the similarities in the past, but I can conversate equally in both realms. It's like political parties, they do the same things... it is the fringe elements of both that need to be avoided.

I mean, look at sports games. You run a franchise in Madden, and it is just a giant RPG, your players (characters) have their stats go up and down after every season (level). Hell, I love franchise mode in Madden, I have 53 characters to level every year.

Fantasy football (and other sports) just takes it to an all new level. Hardcore fantasy sports players are just dorks that just never realized it.

As someone who has both jock and geek tendencies I can unquestionably say that this list is brilliant.

The sports nut is seen as being at least somewhat normal, not so for the geek.

How do these apply to me?
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6) A Love of Themed T-Shirts.
Nope. I have a few, but I think T-Shirts are a sort of classless way to get attention. The whole "Hey! His shirt advertises something I ALSO like!" thing just evades me.
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5) A Love of Gatherings of Fellow Nerds.
Nope. I'm an introvert. I stopped going to cons because there were too many loudmouth attention whores and non-geeks there. The whole experience was ruined for me.
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4) Obsessive Attention to Facts and Dates.
OK. Yes. I can go on and on about the fine details of the Marvel Universe, or get all intense about the casting decisions for the next big science fiction movie (especially if it was a book, originally). I guess this one fits.
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3) Irrational Hatred of People Who Love a Slightly Different Version of What They Love.
No... Not hatred, anyway. Unless it's manga/anime or Joss Whedon, then yeah- I hate that shit. But I don't hate the PEOPLE; I hate the media itself. The fans I'm just confused by.
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2) Cosplay.
NEVER EVER. I loathe cosplay. I think it's one of the most idiotic, intelligence-insulting fads to ever pop up. Everything about it reeks of non-geeks (particular girls) infiltrating geek events. Back in the old days, we didn't play dress-up when we geeked-out; Our sisters did that when they played together. WE laughed at it, because it was stupid, and then we played some more Space Invaders and argued about the graphics on the Atari 2600 vs. the Intellivision.
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1) Undying Loyalty, Even When It Should Probably Die.
No! Here's an example: I *loved* Battlestar Galactica. I watched every episode twice, and waited anxiously for a YEAR while they got around to the final season, and then the finale happened. I was so insulted and disgusted with the non-ending that I swore off anything related to BSG ever again, including future Ron Moore projects. Loyalty? Screw that. I'm not some Whedonite who puts blinders on and overlooks when a writer/producer does something incredibly lame. Sure, I'll defend George Lucas sometimes, but I don't always agree with what he does (TPM, while a necessary story, also sucked) and I'll call him on it when he screws up (Indy 4). I'll defend the current staff on Amazing Spider-Man because they're doing good work, but I won't defend Joe Q. after his blunder in One More Day.
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So I guess, by the above definitions, I'm not a nerd. Or maybe I finally have a solid answer to the question: "What's the difference between a nerd and a geek?"

It's a well known fact that EVERYONE is a nerd by definition. Everybody has one thing they care about more than anything else and follow it religiously. So whether you're a comic book nerd or a sports nerd, you're still a nerd. The only problem is, the non "traditional" nerds don't want to admit it.

Count me in the both camps group in this.

I have a collection of force FX lightsabers in my daughters room, one side of the entertainment center is covered in Wars/Trek - the other side is basically a shrine to Ray Lewis.
My closet, damn near a hundred Games Day & Summer Battle Tour (back from when GW liked itsa customers) t-shirts (an 94 UK GD shirt still in good condition too!) and about 8 or so jerseys... so I'm nerdtastic all around.

http://www.theonion.com/content/node/38664

Onion did it perfectly.

I love this list! I'm happy to say I'm a member of both realms. Whether I'm debating the advantages between fire and arcane mages, or wearing my Seahawks jersey and bemoaning the reffing farce of super bowl XL (this is a known fact among any Seahawks fan), I'm in my element.

I found one of those motivational posters a few years back that said
"Fantasy Football - It's like Dungeons and Dragons for the kids who used to beat up the kids that played Dungeons and Dragons"

Great list and so true! I saw an argument at a con once over one player's conduct in a recent RPG that would put any Yankees-Red Sox debate to shame. I am both a nerd and a huge sports fan and I can definitely say from my perspective there is a beautiful similarity between the two "worlds."

And I am not a Bronco fan but I live in Denver so RIP, Barrel Man!

This is such a great list. I've always said cool kids are nerds too, even if the things they obsess about/love are considered socially cool. This list just proves me right.

Comic book writer Peter David has a great blog post on the same topic.

http://www.peterdavid.net/index.php/2006/06/27/sports-fans/

Well, I guess I get to prove my nerdness by making a couple of points based on your article.

The first formal gathering of fans(nerds/geeks) at a convention was in 1939. It was certainly a small event, not much more than the attendance of an uber D&D game, but it was the first. So, we've been gathering together at events for closer to 70 years. Not the 30/40 you mention.

So, with that above sentence, I tick off points 4 and 5, as well as the shared skilled of being willing to correct anyone who's wrong about the most minor historical points of their favorite fandom/team/sport.

i think the 90's series "super stars" or whatever with gretzky, jordan, and bo on a super-team kind of confirmed that sports nerds were regular nerds.

now i'm just waiting for someone to open a nerd bar.

As a serious sports fan (Go Canucks GO!) and a life-long nerd (Mandalorian skull and Decepticon insignia arm tattoos, and a giant Sandman back tattoo have branded me for life), I totally agree with this article.
It was odd for me to come to grips with my sports fanaticism until I realized that it was simply an extension of my geeky nature. Now that I have embraced the two seemingly conflicting aspects of my nerdery, I am at peace with myself.

Great list comparing the two factions of fandom. i consistently have arguments about this with my wife and friends. Why am I a dork and someone else just "likes football"? If you play a season of Madden and really know how to manage your team vs. playing through WoW and knowing how to maximize your damage what's the difference? Sure you can make fun of the nerd for wanting to be a mage and casting spells, but how is that any better than the 20 pounds overweight guy in college wishing he was actually the quarterback for Green Bay? Neither one of those scenarios is going to happen, and if you're rating fantasies on the awesome factor, which one would you vote for if it came true? The guy who threw an oblong ball in a spiral to another guy 20 yards away, or the guy who shot a demon in the face with frikkin fireballs from his hands? Case closed. I realize there are degrees of roleplaying involved, but still, it needs to be noted that this kind of wish fulfillment is common to a full spectrum of people, and that a lot of so called "nerds" appreciate the strategy in the games we play as is recognized for more, generally regarded, sophisticated hobbies like chess and card games.

Hell Yeah! My list made the cut!

I don't see why some people can't be a nerd and a sports fan at the same time. I know a guy who is both a humungous Harry Potter fan and is also a rabid follower of the Cleveland Indians. He doesn't care how much they suck most of the time. He loves that team with a passion.

You can add Religious Fanatics to this group too.

Fantasy sports is Dungeons and Dragons for guys who used to beat up guys that played Dungeons and Dragons

After see the title and reading the six item, I could think of several people I know who fit four or more of the similarities with their love of the NY Mets, Yanks,(both #1-6) and the Brooklyn Dodgers (#1, 3,4 & 6). The ones who really frightened me the most are the die hard Brooklyn Dodger fans. Come on already, get over it, they left nearly 50 years ago and I am tired of here about the SOB O'Malley.

As for #3 "Irrational Hatred of People Who Love a Slightly Different Version of What They Love", here in NYC the list is endless regardless of the sport or teams; Mets v Yankees, Yankees v Brooklyn, Yankees v NY Giants, and this is just one sport in the same city. When you added in the out-of-town teams, Boston [BOSTON SUCKS], Pittsburgh, Philadelphia (the current team and old ones), the list goes on and on.
As for Nerds I have known, I have been lucky, I do not know anyone who are hard core on two maybe three of the similarities.

Yes! I'm glad I'm not the only one to come to this realization. Sports nerds are just another form of nerd.

FYI, the lovely cosplay of Zelda is an incredibly talented woman named JoEllen. Her website is firefly-path.net.

And everyone in Colorado loved the delightful Barrel Man, may he rest in peace. He died late last year of lung disease.

Everybody geeks out on something. I remember in the late 90's watching 2 Grandma's almost beat the living shit out of each other over Beenie-babies!

I haven't even started reading the details of this list yet (just the headline and bullet titles), and I'm already compelled to comment, as I took note of these similarities long ago.

...I've never understood how sports fans have totally missed all the signs that they are, in fact, nerds. ...Rafter in your own eye, people. RAFTER IN YOUR OWN EYE!!!!!

That Zelda costume is pretty impressive, really.

As some have hinted at, you could say this about all of human society. We like groups. Back in the day we ran around in tight-knit tribes. We're all about families, religions, countries, ethnic groups, jobs, guilds, whatever. Even loners are like this. People like being a part of something greater than themselves, and will become zealous and crazy about it. It's pretty much human nature.

R.I.P. Barrell Man!

What I dislike about this article is that you basically think being a nerd = being obsessive. I think everyone is obsessive to something in one way or another and it just becomes labelled as being a nerd. Sports nerd, comic nerd, movie nerd (usually called buff for some reason), music nerd, grammar nerd. It's just an interest in something thats very loyal. Nerd imo is more of a way of life, being shy, being indoors, being alone, being pale etc etc. Just because you have an interest in something and its obsessive doesn't automatically make you nerdy, since it probably has no bearing on your personality at all.