• Yes, and Stanis will be used as sacrifice to do it.  King's blood is very powerful.

• I don't know if you guys have read the dunken talls, "waking dragon from stone doesn't really mean a dragon will be waking from stone, it could simply a dragon "targarien" will discover their identity. Like you Sade I won't over think this, but there's something to what melisandre Is seeing in the fire. It just to literal.

• First off... These two book followed logically from the first three... We expected a war, we got a war, and then their was a big mess to clean. I.E.  a feast for crows and Dance with Dragons... I agree with hascow that this is all a huge set up for the next installment... How can we say there was no progression when Prince Aegon enters into the story here. This review is retarded, and jon snow is not dead, and robert strong is not the mountain... he is some freak creation of qyburn's more like a frankenstein then anything else.

• hey so the majei predicted that 1. the sun would rise in the west and set in the east- Quentyn martell whose sigil is the sun rose in dorne and died in merreeen 2. mountains would blow in the wind- the mountain died to the viper 3. the sea would dry up- in aDwD it states that the dothraki sea is diminishing at the end of the book Dany starts to bleed again meaning she can finnaly have another son, and khal Drogo would come back to life which could mean that hes resurected as khal pono or something else entirely but regardless I'd just like to say FU to GRRM because i am now going to obsess over the story for the next god knows how long until TWoW finnly comes out

• Some ideas:1) Could it have not been Mance posing as Ramsay who sent the letter saying that Stannis was dead? He would have known all the information contained in the letter while Ramsey would need to have discovered that Abel was Mance for the letter to make sense. Also, the letter mentions the wilding babe. What would Ramsay want with the Mance Rayder’s son? Mance Rayder however, would certainly want Mance Rayder’s son. 2) I think Septa Lemore is Ashara Dayne. If Ashara is not dead the Septa would be around the right age and we know that both women have had a child (Tyrion mentions that the Septa has stretch marks). If this is correct than Aegon is likely Ashara’s son and her suicide was faked. Who fathered this Aegon is another story. If it was Ned, then would he have known that she was still alive? 3) We are led to believe that the Iron Bank of Braavos has sent an envoy to provide Stannis with much needed financial capital to continue his rebellion against the Lannisters who, thanks to Cersei, have postponed payment of their debt. Why is this envoy in such a rush to find Stannis? He first seeks the King at the Wall then goes all the way to Deepwood only to then race though a snowstorm to find Stannis’ army camped three days from Winterfell. It seems imprudent to be in such a hurry to give a loan to a man about to fight a battle he could easily lose. Instead of just money could the bank be offering Stannis something else? Perhaps some useful information? And now I am really speculating but perhaps the bank knows the whereabouts of the real Arya Stark. She is in Braavos after all and this information would help Stannis quickly win the Northman to his cause. 4) Finally, I was confused about the Second Son known as Kem. Tyrion meets him after signing on to the company and immediately pegs him for a Kingslander, which the boy confirms. Yet, Kem fought for Stannis on the Battle of the Blackwater. If the boy was living in Kingslanding he should have been fighting for the Lannisters not for Stannis.

• Stannis is not dead. I found an excerpt from the next book, "Winds of Winter" about the letter Ramsay Bolton sent to Jon Snow. ------------------------------------------------------http://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Stannis_Baratheon In a sample chapter released in the Winds of Winter, it was however revealed that Stannis is still alive and supports the theory that the letter written by Ramsay about the battle with Stannis was just a lie Ramsay wrote in his wrath though it takes place before the last Jon Snow chapter of A Dance with Dragons.Stannis recieved the banker Tycho Nestoris and the two signed a contract, Stannis plans on sending the Banker back tot he Wall so he does not get caught up in the fighting.Stannis is now aware of the planned treachery of Arnolf Karstark due to the message Jon Snow gave the banker. Stannis has Arnolf, his son Arthor and three grandsons arrested and plans to execute them, whether the death will be quick or by fire depended on there willingless to confess. Stannis is at the moment is preparing his position to battle the coming vanguard of Roose Bolton army led by Hosteen Frey. Stannis is sending Justin Massey to escort Arya Stark (actually unknown to Stannis, Jeyne Poole) back to the Wall to reunite the girl with her brother Jon Snow in gratitude for Snow warning him of Karstarks planned treachery.Stannis also orders Massey to go with Tycho Nestoris to Braavos where Massey will use the money given to him by the Iron Bank of Braavos to hire sellsword companies till he has a force of no less then twenty thousand strong and sail back to Westeros.Stannis plans to have Theon Greyjoy executed.[28]

• a song of fire (dany) and ice (jon)...he's not dead he's transforming...

• I think Jon will come back reborn as Azhor, think of the Nights Watch oath " I am the sword in the darkness" and " I am the fire that burns against the cold, the light that brings the dawn"

• The dragon has 3 heads-- I'm thinking that there will be 3 Azor Ahai's, but I still can't figure out who will be the 3rd one.  GRRM likes to be "tricksy" and subtle.  Definitely, Danaerys is one of the 3 heads, but she also cannot be "The Prince Who Was Promised".  GRRM wants everyone to think that Dannie is Azor Ahai, so he can have a huge reveal for the other one(s).  I love reading everyone's theories on how  the various prophecies are going to work out.  GRRM likes to puzzle us.  Why has GRRM made multiple references to a dragon underneath Winterfell?  Why hasn't he made any mention of that horn Jon found in like 3 books?  Why does Jon's image appear for Melisandra every time she asks to see the Azor Ahai?  And who are Jon's real parents?  I would bet body parts that Ned Stark isn't even Jon's father.  Why does Jon have violet eyes when the other starks have gray eyes?  Check out this theory of Jon's parentage: http://www.angelfire.com/ma4/mlarchives/faq/jon.html  Jon's a Stark and a Targaryan, but not Ned's son, his nephew.  With all the background behind Jon's heritage, and Melisandra seeing him when she asks for "Azor Ahai", I tend to think that Jon Snow is at least on equal footing with Danaerys, and possibly the primary "Azor Ahai", if there's only one. Oh, the other Targaryen--Aegon, being mentored by Jon Connington--he's the false dragon.  I don't think he's the other "head".  But that belongs in a different post.... It's too bad we have to wait another 5 years to find out all the answers. :-(

• Well, Sansa could get interesting if Littlefinger is able to shape her (as he seems to be trying to do) for an important role in the 'game of thrones' which he is so good at playing--he's been making a point of teaching her political deviousness. It remains to be seen if she can become hardhearted enough to make any use of such teachings, however.  Each of the Stark children gets their moment of uber training at something: War and kingship (Robb); running The Wall (Jon); assassin apprenticeship (Sansa); ultimate warg-ness (Bran); cannibal/berserker training on Skagos? (Rickon). Even Sansa may eventually learn to be useful I suppose....

• Cersi is alive specifically to fuck things up, that's true (Varys spells it out, if anyone didn't already know). Cersi is also alive so that by the end of the series (as predicted by Maggie the Frog) she can be an utterly ruined hag, squatting amongst the bones of all her family members (except Tyrion, obviously) and crying out at what her arrogance and incompetence have wrought. Dany needs to get the F out of Dodge (i.e. Meereen). I felt she'd realized as much by the end of the book: leave the slaver's city to the slavers, go to the place that actually has want of her and has less cultural disconnect with her ideals.

• You're over-thinking this. As I'm sure has been mentioned a thousand times before, the prophecy of Azor Ahai overwhelmingly points to Danaerys. All the prophecy conditions were fulfilled by the end of her arc in the first book: salt from her tears, smoke from the pyre, the red comet passes across the sky, baby dragons woken from petrified eggs. Unless GRRM has said in completely certain terms otherwise, I'm going with Occam's Razor on this one.

• Nice catch on that prophecy--good word-twists.  I have constantly been watching for this but I was looking for something more literal.  You've definitely nailed it.  Note that in the end after eating the berries, she was yielding a lot of her "moonsblood" (womb quickens).   As for Jon Snow, Jon is definitely Azor Ahai as you've suggested: Smoke: from his wound Salt: Bowen Marsh's tears Red star bleeds: the killed knight's emblem (7 pointed stars + Red for being Queen's men under Melisandre) Wake dragons from stone, though? Drumroll please: My prediction - Jon will be brought back from death by Melisandre and will continue back to Winterfell to free Mance Rayder.  Jon will bring with him the horn that Ghost found with all the dragonglass arrows (Horn of Winter/Horn of Joramun) in hopes that it will be able to destroy the walls, as Mance Rayder supposed.However, the true prophecy of the "Horn Of Winter" is that when "Joramun sounded the horn of Winter, and woke Giants from the earth." Only when Jon blows it, it will wake the dragon that has been resting deep within Winterfell, keeping the godswood lake warm.  I can't wait to read what Ramsay does when the Stark family dragon wakes up pissed. That's right folks, you heard it here first.

•  This book could have been a lot more satisfying. The fact that Martin is resorting to CLEAR cliff hangers, especially with Tyrion, Jon and, to a lesser extent, Stannis, is worrying to me. I dont think Tyrion finished a single chapter without being in some kind of mortal peril. Stannis' death was trolling, plain and simple as was Jon's, especially since we didnt get a POV character plotting it or have any sympathy for the people who had a problem with him. Hell, we barely had any idea that any real non-evil characters wanted to shank him in the first place. Oh and the murder of Kevan and Pycelle is pretty perfunctory too. In fact, just about everyone who dies in this is either killed almost out of the blue at the end, or doesnt matter at all to anything (Hello prince of Dorne!) I actually worried about Cersei in this one, despite the fact that, well, fuck Cersei, but all the same, he wrote her pretty well, so props for that. Then again, its not hard to feel for someone in that much of a shitty situation. Oh, and just what the shit is Ser Jorah DOING????

• My "Predictions" (SPOILERS INVOLVED) Jon:  Dead or not, I think he returns.  In fact, I think JON is "Azor Ahai" (Or whatever R'holor's "Champion" is called.  Messandri can "bring him back," I am pretty certain, although, that may be HER end.  (I always THOUGHT she was "Evil," BUT.....I wonder if she is not just incredibly cunning, and presents herself as the murderous scion we think...) Stannis and the NOTE FROM RAMSAY:  The note only has SOME truth to it.  Unless, Stannis "freed" Theon, Asha and Jeyne, or, unless they somehow excaped during battle, they would have been captured WITH Stannis.  The reference to his Sword, however, does suggest that Stannis may be "gone."  (My bet...JON ends up with that sword......have no idea what happens to "LongClaw...")  Still, that letter was largely meant to provoke Snow, as it did.  Does ANYONE "Trust" Ramsay Bolton to tell the whole truth?  Or ANY Truth? Brienne and Jaime:  We STILL do not know what Brienne's "Word" was, as she was about to be hanged by MadCat.  I THOUGHT it might have been "Dragon(s)" and that is still a possibility, but, it seems the Dragons are currently feasting on Slave Owners (Hey, sorry, but I consider that "GOOD Dragon Acts!!!"  In fact, they may have much of Dany's 'personality' bound up in them...) That said, Brienne may have also said "Sansa" or "Hound...."  Whatver the case, I am not certain what her and Jaime are up to.  It just seems too easy that he is being led to his "doom....."  I also question why the HOUND came up at all...UNLESS, somehow, he has rushed in to "take Sansa"  (Hey, I am one of those honestly hoping for a "Beauty and the Beast" story between those two...Sansa may not get her beautiful "Boy King," but, instead, a redeemed Champion, who is finally true to his heart...) Still, this whole part is a HUGE question for me... Speaking of the Hound:  He (Likely as a "champion" of the Church), will eventually face the construct that we think is his Brother, Sir Robert.....I have always thought that the HOUND will be the one to finally defeat the Mountain.... Cersei:  We know what she will try, and her tactics.  But, I think, we may be inclined in the next two novels to actually "feel" for her, as, according to prophecy, she will see ALL of her children buried.  (Expect to cry for sweet Tommen and his sister....I expect them to have sad ends.....as their mother is left to see her family line perish....)  Also, according to her "prophecy," she will die at the hands of her brother, whom she assumes to be Tyrion.  I predict that it will be Jaime who finally kills her,,,, Tyrion and all of his new 'Friends:"  Tyrion will emerge a HERO, and help guide, lead his new allies, perhaps becomming the "Queen's Hand," outright.  Not only does he have great CUNNING, he has true HONOR.  The Fighter types respect that, regardless of whether THEY have any or not.  I also expect that he, and Borwn Ben will get one of the two Dragons under their control.... Arya:  She has some more "assasin Force training," then, she will be sent to Westeros to KILL someone important (NOTE, however, that there is a common thread of "ANTI-Slavers" out there, who, wile divided, are growing in power:  The Red God's faith, the Faceless God's Force assasing, etc.) Bran:  Anybody remember that the first book BEGAN with Bran?  Bran is about to lose his "childhood," to become the "thing on the throne."  In fact, I wonder if, already, some of the things ocurring are not already HIM.  (This will be a 'sad' tale, but, bittersweet...Bran will lose hiw humanity, but, become something much, much more...) The Dorne Storyline will begin to become the new "Game of Thrones," as Aegon and Connington will eventually have Lords come to their side. Varys "work" is all but done, it seems.  THAT part of the book, I LOVED.  I still expect him to do what he does, but....I still wonder what OTHER "powers" he has associations with....the FACELESS God?  Sorcerors?  Sam, and the Maesters:  They are off and about on SOMETHING.  I think that SOMETHING is likely the LARGER WAR, in which we have Dragons/Fire God Vs.  White Walkers/whatever else is finally behind them...(???)  We still know very little about the White Walkers..... Theon:  Theon will be the one to kill Ramsay, perhaps by "flaying."

• I share the same concern.  When the third book of a series is comprised almost entirely of charecters that didn't exist (or existed peripherally) in the first two books, someone is trying to stretch out the story to make more money.  Unfortunately, just like with Jordan, GRRM hasn't really added much to the story, just stretched (read thinned) it out.

• If you learned that words are wind, then you learned much and more.  Pardon my cruel jape.

• Daenerys burned her hands too after riding Drogon. Her last chapter, first paragraph, last sentence: "Her skin was pink and tender, and a pale milky fluid was leaking from her cracked palms, but her burns were healing." But only her hands...like Jon

• Gah! ... just finished ADwD... cannot BELIEVE I had to wait six years for that overblown, out-of-control disaster. Seriously, it's a way bigger tragedy than Book 4... Martin's first three books were consistent, they were tight, they moved things along, the characters developed well, the POV's were balanced... then it's like he wrote himself into a giant mess. All the random POV's in this one are irritating, and the fact that there's heaps of boring Dany chapters, then one for Jaime etc. Where's the balance? Look, all due respect to Martin, he started one of the best fantasy series of all time... the whole construct is his, so it's his perogative to phuck it up. Shame he did though. No point bagging him about it though. He's probably his own harshest critic, I'm sure he knows he's lost it.

• You know fiction is just a suspension of reality. So why doesn't everybody just suspend reality and pretend 6 years haven't passed and that none of this HBO Wild Card ComiCon yadda yadda yadda hasn't happened and just look at this in an individual light. an objective light. Stop dwelling on the 'Jordan' or whatever else it is you talentless critics dwell upon. If George wants to write a book then we are lucky to see it. You shouldn't have bought it if you didnt want to read it that bad. Wait til a friend finished if you wanted to check it out. Is everyone really a critic nowadays? Oh, wait, I think I answered my own question. I liked it. I can't think of an author in recent years with a better grip of primal human inter relationships than Martin. Complain about too many characters but what kind of visionary can hold so many POV's together without totally confusing everybody? I don't know whatever it's just that seeing so much negativity not even based upon the actual work was a pretty disheartening view of book readers. Back to the Dannielle Steele!  

• Well it's true that according to what has been said of Rhaegar, it certainly doesn't seem likely that Rhaegar would have raped her. But then again, so far no facts have been presented that even support a Rhaegar/Lyanna union. I mean, verifiable facts. Just things that certain characters, who could not know the full story, thought they knew.

• It's not entirely a fact that Rhaegar raped Lyanna, in all of his books in one mans words against anothers. they could've been in love and Ned promised her to take care of him and claim  Jon as his own. Many things point to that other than rape or Ashara dayne as his mother

• Greystole, that was just a random character saying that.  Lyanna is the obvious choice of his mother thats why he looks like Ned, and Rhaegar being his father.  He is in most cases Azor Azai reborn... That is, when he is reborn, that's my take on that he will be revived and maybe we'll get a few chapters titled Ghost in the next book as him as the wolf.  Even Maester Aemon said it to Jon and Sam, that Stannis cannot be Azor because his sword only gave off light, not heat. either way should be interesting.

• Seems to be Viserys burned just fine. 

• Definitely agree with this

• or random senseless death, it's equally possible.

• she is going to be a bad ass assassin only to realize that time fullfilled her vengance. Enlightend she will truly understand the way of the god with many faces and that death is only given to those sincerly prayed for. before it comes to that she will join up with dany which will be the connection to win the north. (she looks like ned and was always known to be a fierce little creature) Casterly Rock, Highgarden, and the Ironman are the ones left to be crushed.. althoug tyrion might win the lions over to the cause because he will eventionally join dany and win her wars with some high class trickery 

• Well, as to that Viserys seems to burn pretty well. So it's obviously not just the blood, unless there's some big reveal and we find out V wasn't actually a Targaryen.  As for Jon, at this point the union of Rhaegar and Lyana is not strongly supported. The tiny hint that Lyana had a baby (lying in a bed of blood) is certainly not a strong statement, and it's unplaced in time relative to Rhaegar making off with her. Certainly Rhaegar could have raped her, but we don't actually know that he and Lyana had a child.  And, as above, unless Viserys was not actually a Targaryen, whether Jon is or not isn't relevant to whether he can be burned.  If I may express a personal opinion, I don't actually want Jon to be a Targaryen. I just don't feel that that makes a whole lot of sense, but who knows?

• Martell had dragons blood too, lot of good that did him

• I think Martell probably just burned because the blood was so diluted, after a few generations. The dragons responded to Brown Ben Plumm, but I doubt he is nonburnable, too. Maybe it just doesn't take too much to weaken the dragon blood? So much that the Targaryens often married siblings/cousins to keep the blood pure.

• Yeah, I read it - also think there was another story in the 3rd book? But as you say, pretty anticlimactic. So I take it as gossip, or a story Ned made up to save Jon. But, we will see I suppose.

• Am I the only one who read the paragraph where we're told that Jon's mother was the daughter of the fisherman who rescued Eddard Stark? That revelation, buried towards the end of a chapter, seemed rather anticlimactic.

• Ah, you're right.  Although I like the original title better. " A Dream of Spring (formerly known as A Time for Wolves) ... " http://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/A_Song_of_Ice_and_Fire

• I know right! So frustrating. I hope we dont have to wait another 6 years for the next book

• Interesting theory re the mixing of blood.  That would explain why Martell burned as well.

• I thought that the last book was going to be called A Dream of Spring

• Looks like there are still replies trickling in here. I finished the book a day or 2 ago, and have to agree with most of what's been said about the book. I think Martin can still wrap it up in 2 more books. I don't think Jon is dead, even zombie dead. I think he can survive his wounds. And I, too, think he may be a Rhaegar-Lyanna love child. MY take on it is Lyanna actually may have loved Rhaegar and not Robert. Ned needed the whole bastard tale to keep Jon alive. And perhaps dragon blood diluted with Stark blood is why he can be burned. I see some sort of Stark-Targaryen team up to fight the others in the end. I think we're going to need some dragon fire to melt some ice.

• Sometimes I think it would be really cool if Jaime killed Cersei. Not that I'm saying it seems incredibly likely, what with Jaime seeming to be knocking on death's door and being a softie at this point, but the hag said Cersei's little brother would kill her. And Jaime is younger, by a bit! ...It'd be cool, that's all. That said, I totally felt bad for Cersei in this. I'm a softie. I'll feel bad for anyone, no matter how terrible they might have been in an earlier chapter. Well. Okay. I find it hard to ever feel bad for, say, Ramsay. But you get what I mean? Also, fbgabgt Jon Snow. Damn it. >c Also, I'd like more news on Rickon, plz. Arya's training is really cool. I just don't like that she's apparently starting to hate Arya. Also, I'm starting to kinda-sorta like Melisandre. A bit. Because even though she's still a religious fanatic that goes around burning weirwoods (which makes me sad!), she really does seem to just kinda wanna save the world.

• I had a little prob w/ cersies story arc. I know her reign was a mess, and arming the "faith" one of the biggest blunders, but could her actions soooo radically and fundamently changed the political dynamics of Kings Landing in this short of time, that now the "Faith" has so much clout that they can hold captive the queen regent AND the queen-to-be?? Subject her to that walk of shame as a condition of release...AND even once back in the custody of her familly, STILL compel them to stand trial with NO means for the king and his counsel to prevent the Faith from doing whatever they will? It just seems to radical a change in climate in too short of time to be believable. Even though one can argue it was in the counsels interest to get Cersie out of the  way, but kevan too? would tywin ever have allowed the Lannister name sullied publicly by the church? could a kingdom ever afford to have a competing entity within the realm undermine their authority so thoroughly? I understand their hold on power is becoming more tenuous by the day, and the "numbers" problem, i.e. sparrows vs kings guards, but just seems incongruous to the politcal dynamics established in the earlier books. ok i guess i had more than just a "little" problem with it.

• So, I did like this book more than AFfC, mainly because it had more interesting characters (although no dark humor as sublime as Cersei's repeat paranoid idiocy, seriously reading those chapter imagining she was akin to Otto in A Fish Called Wanda was one of the great unintentional joys of the series) and as I've said before and will likely say again, good, interesting characters can make even the dullest story shine. Of course, I didn't find the story dull at all, as I kept in mind Martin's original statement that he original started writing the single volume ADwD as a few years in the future and that it required such a stupid number of flashbacks, it wasn't even worth it, so he scratched it and just decided to write all that setup out. So, AFfC and ADwD are really supposed to be setup. Two books is fine to finish the series, because that's where all the awesome stuff is finally going to happen. Still, it doesn't make some of the book less frustrating, and I know I will not be able to wait for The Winds of Winter. Anywho, the only part that vexed me was "the children" with Varys at the end. White face with dark eyes? *shivers*

• how can jon be targaryan if he burned his hands when throwing fire at the white walker...? dragon blood doesn't burn...

• In rereading the earlier books there is a mention in Game of Thrones that Jon has violet eyes - a classic Targaryen trait.  However, Jon was burned when he fought the wights in Lord Mormont's room so he is not impervious to fire.  I hate the fact that we will have to wait 2-5 years for the next installment.  . 

• I don't think it'll be more than two more books. A lot happened in this one, like you said, it was just spread out between some pointless stuff regarding Quentyn and Tyrion. With Stannis down and Jon dead/depowered, that makes the threats to Tommen down to pretty much three sides: Euron and the ironmen, Daenerys and the Unsullied, and Aegon and the Golden Company.  The odd piece out here is the ironmen, so I assume the next book will have a lot to do with the Greyjoys. Theon and Asha are almost certainly alive, somewhere in the north. Victarion is still heading for Meereen, and Euron is doing god-knows-what to the coastline. The Stark children are scattered, but there's four of them. What significance Bran, Arya, and Rickon will have is unknown, but Sansa is about to become a major issue for the Boltons, this book's de facto villains. This draws the Vale into the conflict. Aegon allies with the Vale, a natural enemy of the Lannisters and Tyrells. The Martells will almost certainly swing for Aegon. That's two of the seven families (assuming the Bolton's have replaced the Starks,) and House Lannister is down every single member. Jaime is missing, Cersei is dishonored, Tyrion is gone for good, and Kevan and Tywin are dead. House Lannister is done, meaning that it's now House Tyrell calling the shots. In the end, most every Westerosi faction but the Ironmen, the Boltons, and the Tyrells is going to want  membership in the Targaryen resurrection. I'm guessing the conflict will be which Targaryen will rule, Dany or Aegon. A fragile alliance type of thing. I got pretty off topic here, but yeah, almost definitely settleable in two more books.

• Although now that I think about it, it was supposed to be a five book series, after originally being planned as a trilogy.  So maybe A Feast for Crows and A Dance with Dragons = one really good book and Winds of Winter and A Time for Wolves (that title should give us all hope about how the series ends) = one really good book.    

• One more theory, this time about Martin: A Feast For Crows and A Dance With Dragons could have and should have been a single book.  All the Brienne POV chapters were filler, and so were the non-Arianne POV Dorne chapters (including Q. Martell's hijinx) and other POV chapters could have been shortened considerably (the Kingsmoot chapters, Jon brooding on the Wall) or eliminated altogether (we get to read about Cersei walking to Kings Landing?  Really?).  If all of this surplusage had been weeded out, you'd be left with a pretty tight, Storm of Swords-like ride.  So what happened? I think Martin unfortunately decided to milk the series.  Several years ago (before A Feast for Crows) Hollywood and HBO came a calling.  All of a sudden Martin is looking at an opportunity to make more money than he has ever had before.  He knows that every book that comes out after the HBO series will be selling exponentially more copies.  But he can't drag his fans along for that many years.  So he splits A Dance with Dragons into two books, with the second to be released right after the HBO series, so that he can milk one more book out of the television audience.  In real dollars, if A Dance With Dragons sells a million copies, that's at least a cool mil in his pocket on royalties alone. So now that Martin's made his money, I have every hope that the next two books will return to the tightly-plotted masterpieces of books 1-3.

• The author always stresses Jon's burnt hand, way too much, is he hinting at something besides his experience with the 'other" Dany doesn't burn, just a couple of blisters.

• I was fortunate enough to not read the series until after the show so my wait for ADWD wasn't FOREVER. But that said, I agree with most here, not much happened and I raced to read something to alter the entire plotline but nothing came. There were only two parts that my heart actually jumped to and that was when Davos was tasked to find Rickon (I thought, 'finally, someone is helping a STARK after their entire family is basically shatted on by GRRM'. But of course he disappeared after that as well, only leaving us a hint of a location that was so dreadful bc of something to do with cannibals.) And then when they bloody murdered Jon, right after I thought some action would finally happen cause he's finally leaving the wall to address Winterfell, oh the irony. It was heartbreaking to read of how everything he gave Stannis was worth it if they'd just give his little sister back. *weep*.  A definite breath-taking blow to the gut. Most don't seem to think Jon's dead but I would rather that he is than returning as a cold thing, regardless if it's Wight Coldhandlike or  ZombieCat. Some think he's gonna take over someone else's body relieving him of the Wall but who and it won't go over smoothly, like when Bran takes Hodor, Hodor is still inside struggling, horrible existence. Plus, the Wall needs him more than ever. I'm tired of Dany and her nonsense. I'm tired of Slaver's Bay and all this hostility. There's nothing but strange customs and sickness and death. She might've hatched dragons but they are by no mean her 'children' bc she did not train them like she should've instead of ruling a city that is never going to be hers. Now they're loose and the only reason they're not killing her is because she is impervious to flames.  Hopefully in the next book (whenever that will be) we will see Kal Jhago submitting to her with Drogon at her side and then they ride with his Khalasar (sp?) to demolish the Yunka'i armies outside of Merreen. I want to know Jon's real heritage, how Brienne (and the hopefully the little squire, I like him) survived the hanging, how Sam and Gilly is faring, who Coldhand is (Benjen makes sense but that's too easy), and etc etc.. a HOST of things. And hopefully Rickon have grown up and is not a gigantic brat with a killing beast at his side. But hope are easily forsaken in these damn stories.

• My theory about Jon Snow: Jon Snow is Rhaegar and Lyanna's love-child, named after Jon Carrington (Rhaegar's best friend, as another poster pointed out), whom Lyanna asked Ned to raise as his own bastard in order to protect him from Robert, who would have killed him otherwise.  Ned told Robert that it was his bastard by Wylla (think that was her name), who was Jon's milk-mother, and (further speculation) that their affair happened on the raid on the Tower in Dorne to recapture Lyanna (who Ned found out was actually in love in Rhaegar, and had been sent there for her safety during childbirth).  Ashara Dayne killed herself because of Ned's duty to his sister (the Jon as his bastard lie), to his family (marrying Catelyn) or to his friend Robert (killing Ashara's brother, Arthur Dayne, one of the Kingsguard who I'm guessing was guarding Lyanna when she gave birth to Jon), or some combination of the three.  If this theory is true, then Jon can't be dead.  He, along with Daenrys and the newly-discovered Aegon, are the three heads of the dragon.

• i can get behind that theory. I would read the story of arya's ninja training.

• Ugh, the only parts of the Sansa chapters I find even remotely interesting is when we find out what Littlefinger is doing.

• I almost feel like Arya is just another book series entirely that I would actually rather read than all of the rest combined.

• How about Roberts bastard (smith) taken by the stonequeen?

• You'd think in a 1000 page book, at least a couple of characters would reach their destination.

• First comes the "Ides of Winter" to set up the "Cry havoc and let loose the dogs of war" stuff.  Thanks to Julius Ceasar we have the plot line.  Still I don't think Jon buys it.  Wun Wun is right there, and I expect to see a bunch of pulped crows in Jon's next chapter. 

• Warning SPOILERS...This is one of my favorite book series of all time, so I hate to rip on it, but this book wasn't what I was expecting. Too slow throughout, no real battles, no resolutions. GRRM tried to fit too much into it I think. I love Tyrion's chapters, he is so clever and witty its great but I was really hoping he would have met up with Daenerys... Dany's chapters had one really great one but I hated how she locked up her dragons in that pit, she needs to embrace them, not hide them away. Bran disappeared about halfway through and I was really liking his POV. Arya only had two chapters but they were both good. Cersei's two chapters were boring, and Jaime's was boring as well but it did have a nice little twist at the end (but you never heard anything else about!) Jon Snow's POV seemed to be the same thing the whole time and I totally saw that coming at the end. I liked the epilogue but didn't quite get the point of the prologue. And what was up with there all the sudden being another Targyrean? That was kind of weird. I love Vicatarion's chapters too but once again, he didnt make it to his destination which drove me crazy! Ahhhhh

• Ah, but Zombie Night Watch Ranger, like Zombie Gregor Clegane, never shows his face.

• I felt like the storyline, simply by virtue of dropping that altogether, and focusing more on the "who was Wylla? Is Jon's mom really Ashara Dayne? Why did Ashara kill herself?" thing had kind of dismissed that, but it seems now more apt, in the context of this book.  Plus, nowhere in the story do we find any reason to believe Rhaegar would ever "rape" anyone-- he's universally portrayed as a noble and gentle character.  Of course, I guess there are hints there-- that tourney tale that the Reeds tell Bran, as well as Bran's flashbacks when he is attached to the trees, etc, and so on; it really seems like we're going to hear something like that. It seems like maybe Ned WAS unfaithful, with the lady Dayne perhaps, or maybe he just let those rumors ride to spare the young child Jon, who might have been after all the son of Rhaegar by Lyanna-- in which case, of course, now we have to wonder: is Jon actually the Prince who is Promised?  It makes a hell of a lot more sense than "Oh BTW THIS IS RHAEGARS SECRET SON AEGON WHO NO ONE HEARD OF OR THOUGHT ABOUT EVER AND DID I MENTION HE IS THE ONE?" Damn.  Martin, knock this shit out in a hurry.  

• The Wall does have to have someone(other than Melisandre) with a POV. It's one of the few locations where things are actually happening at this point.

• Didn't Bran see his uncle at the beginning of the series when Benjen came to visit? Wouldn't he recognize him?

• I don't think Jon is a Targaryen, I think he might come back as a ghost in Ghost. Remember the introduction/prelude with a warg trying to survive by taking the skin of some woman? Why can't Jon do the same?

• My money is on Benjen is Coldhands also. Though that's the obvious assumption, and GRRM is well known for trolling his readers.

• Are there that many possibilities as to whom Coldhands is? Martin is totally the sort to give us a thread five books back then weave it back in dyed in a different color. The Starks are too important to have any member of the family be casually discarded. Some are dead, and when they're dead Martin is sure to have us stare at a bloody corpse to make certain. But those with any sort of ambiguity are those that have more to contribute to the narrative. I mean, look at Lyanna: she's dead but there's a lot of mystery there. The other sibling of Ned with more to say is Benjen. He just up and disappeared. But there are hints that he didn't just die. The cache of dragonglass wrapped in a Night's Watch cloak when Jon needs it. All evidence indicates that Coldhands is a Wraith of a Night's Watch Ranger. And with that the Starks have a connection to the Greenseer via Bran, who better to be his guide than his own uncle? 

• So here's the thing: why would he beg that they grow us as brothers? Assuming he's referring to Robb and Jon. They are brothers, abit half-brothers. The request makes more sense if they aren't brothers but cousins: Jon is Ned's nephew. Not a new theory, just another point for the case.

• I finished it a few days back, and I'm still not sure how I feel about it. I love the series, but gotta admit I feel more than a little let down. Its gotta be the only book in recent memory that has so much shit going but very little actually changes. Aside from a wildlings on the wall, Aegon and the Golden company invading and johns betrayal nothing has really changed. Its just so damn frustrating after all that build up and anticipation. Before going in I read an online review that said we would learn the answer to certain mysteries (who is coldhands and Jon's parentage) but no such luck. The prospect of having to wait another 5 years to maybe get some of the answers I thought we were getting last week really bums me out. And as to weather or not Jon Snow will be coming back, of course he will. But it will be in the Epilogue of Winds of Winter. Think about it, the book will open with a new POV character (my money is on Dolorous Edd or Satin) talking about how he saw Jon Snow stabbed and his body dumped in a snow drift. Melisandre will escape the ensuring violence, only to reappear at the end giving Jon the Kiss of Life.        

• I thought him being the Rhaegar-Lyanna rape child was quite a common theory, and one mentioned in GoT? I've thought so since then, anyway. Lyanna dying in childbirth seemed to be the way hinted at (fever, bloodstains etc). Although we should never trust GRRM on things like this.

• I was surprised Varys actually got his hands dirty for one. Huh. I was thinking at first that the Bolton message was forged by one of the anti-Jon watch, but then how would they know about Mance and the not-Arya? Not sure Mance and Bolton would work together.

• I think Mance and the Boltons are in cahoots

• I might be the only person who gave a damn about Kevan. His death seemed really really harsh. Unlike Jon's which really made sense to me (at least his guys stabbing him). Also regarding Stannis, I really doubt he's dead. Like was mentioned Roose and Ramsay Bolton are colossal dicks so they're just messing with Jon. I'm willing to bet the Bolton's and Mance are in cahoots.

• I feel as if all of the Quentyn story was a waste of time. And not just the time I spent reading it, but the time that I spent waiting for it too. I think GRRM could pull off an ending in 2 books, just not at this pace. He shows a knack for being able to speed things up when necessary and a lot of pieces seem to be in place to do something big. Plus, how many books do we need about people traveling from one place to another and being miserable the whole time?

• That statement obviously fits with Ned's statement that these boys aren't brothers but half brothers... Jon looks more like Ned than Robb does, or any of the children save Arya... UNLESS, of course, Jon is meant to be the son of Rhaegar by Lyanna, in which case HOLY FUCKING FUCK.

• Haha I just started reading the series after the 1st or 2nd episode of AGoT.  Finished like a few days before ADwD.  Now you are saying I got to wait 5-6 years for the next one? ><

• Just finished Dragons. Is any POV character from the first book going to be alive by the end of the series? Seriously. Good book though.

• I think Jon's parents are as clear as day now. He is named after Jon Connington who was Rhaegar's best friend. And all the pieces are set with the Golden Company in the south, the Iron Fleet falling down on Mereen, the Unsullied preparing to march, Dany getting control of her dragons. Plus, we have some new arcs with Theon and Asha, the Bravosi banker, and maybe Jon Snow released from the wall now that he died.

• So... No news in Siryo's Return yet?

• I just recently started reading the series around the same time the tv show started on the suggestion of a friend, I absolutely loved the books and tore through the first four books within about 10 days. I watched the tv show all the way through and what luck the fifth book was due out soon, I was so absolutely eager waiting for book five, I even drove six hours to Burlington to go get my copy of the book signed by George R.R. Martin on the day of release. I just finished it last night, if I had waited six years for this book I would have been pissed. It's a great book, don't get me wrong but not much happens in it compared to the others and somehow I just didn't feel fulfilled after reading it. This could of course be because I am jaded with the distinct lack of Jaime in this book (one chapter is not enough), I've come to terms with the fact that Martin will more than likely kill him before the series is done I'm just hoping for a good death and not at the hands of zombie-cat.  I think I enjoyed Theon's chapters the most even though I despise the character, the tone in them was absolutely fantastic paranoia (though well justified). Tyrion's chapters were awesome too. I wish there we heard a bit more from Kevan before he died, if for no other reason than to learn a bit about Tywin from his perspective.  At this pace, I think there will be three more books if the author lives long enough to complete them. 

• If "mummer's dragon" doesn't mean "fake dragon" -- and it might, given the vision Dany had back in CoK was of a cloth dragon being adored -- then it's probably just referring to the fact that his purpose is directed by Varys. Who is a mummer.

• No way is Martin going to finish this series in seven books. He'll be making the eight, at least.

• Jon may be the promised Prince but I find it more likely that Daenerys is. Aemon said in AFfC that there is an error in the traslated prophecy since dragons are not male/female.

• theres been a reference or two to who his mother is in every book, but the closest to a "true" one we've seen is the flash-back bran has, where we see ned asking the old gods that "they grow up like brothers" and hoping that his wife would forgive him. AKA: we dont know a damn thing for certain yet...

• Good catch but have to be careful with that one it makes itself a rumor by saying "They say" which really doesn't confirm it.

• That threw me for a bit, but could it be misdirection on Matin's part? A red herring to assuage the long established fan theory that Jon is one of the Three Dragons?

• In my defence, the minute I bought the book I skipped right to the ending. It was a surprise for me THEN, but now my post makes me look like a fucking tool. Such is the impetuosity of youth.

• Well only one person knows but GRRM has defently taken to teasing his readers about Jons parents if nothing else. But my reasons for thinking that are mainly Neds sister asked him to do something on her deathbed. Barristan seemed to think that Neds real bastard child died as a stilllborn in this new book and Ned wasn't really the type to keep fathering children outside of Cat either. But he would lie if Jon was a Targaryen for sure given his knowlage of Roberts hate of them and his love for his sister. As for the traits I'll give you that one but that doesn't mean he's Neds either but it does mean he's part Stark.

• I learned one important fact from ADwD: words are wind. I might have missed this if it hadn't been repeated about 200 times throughout the book. But happily, now I know. Jon Snow is dead and won't come back. Hear me now and believe me in five years. While I thought ADwD was a VAST improvement on the previous book, it is still bloated and meandering. I strongly hope the next book picks up the pace of the action and drives the narrative back together and towards the finale of the series.

• Excuse me, but you're wrong about one thing. We DO hear more about Jon Snow's true parents-- his father was Ned, his mother was a fisherwoman. May I direct you to page... here it is, 132?

• Am I the only one who thinks that maybe the word Brienne shouted as they were hanging her was "Arya!"

• Um, I don't think Jon is the 3rd dragon.  Ned was many things but he wasn't a liar except when he had to be to save Sansa's life.   And Jon doesn't any Targaryen traits(hair, eyes)

• Maybe Jon wargs his way into Stannis's body? that would explain the visions somewhat.

• I can agree with that. I think i made my original statement whilst thinking of Cersi. It really bugs me she that she's still alive in the books.

• Jon lives since he's likely a Targaryen given all the hints we have of Neds promise to his sister and now Selmy mentioning the fact that Neds real bastard died a stillborn. So no coldhands for him. Yes that's the Mountain brought back by the ex Measter. As for the dragons we are lead to believe that Greyjoy has the key to bind atleast one dragon (if not more). Though we have no clue if it will happen or not.

• Dany fucked up her kingdom yes but she had enough smarts to realize she wasn't ready to rule yet so used it as a practice kingdom though the kingdom isn't entirely fucked yet it can still be saved maybe she's going to go back to it for atleast a bit. Arya is pretty bright but she's young and as such makes mistakes but she learns pretty fast. Brienne has her moments but she's a knight not a planner much like most of the knights in the books.

• Yeah he's one of my favorite characters also. Though he may already be dead. >.> Melisandre clearly says a pouch of finger bones when she is talking about the spell she used on Mance. Though it's hard to believe he could be anyone else from his chapter but it has me thinking.

• Always something fishy with every cliffhanger Martin writes. But yes there is a chance it's a bluff since we had a lot of other stories tied into that battle. The Karstarks, Freys and Manderlys. The people riding to Stannis had the information the Karstarks were going to betray Stannis I'd think The Manderly's were going to join Stannis if Davos could get Rickon.

• This is what should happen to GRRM as Trololol Saruman! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KaqC5FnvAEc

• Don't think she's a zombie when she was about to get hanged in the last book she was saying something. And in this book Jamie made no mention of her neck looking injured (though he did mention an injury but it does say to her face not her neck.) And when they brought back the Lightning lord he had marks around his neck from hanging. Atleast I hope that's the case.

• Aye he was just talking about Aegon he even says him by name. And no Jon is in no way dead he's likely to be the 3rd head of the dragon and the 3rd Targaryen though that is obviously still unconfirmed. This is just his out of the Nights Watch.

• Not really upset that Stanis dies (maybe) but the way it was told to us was rather anticlimactic. RB: Hi Jon yeah you know that Stanis guy the one who's been a major cog in the story for going on five books now? Yeah we killed him.. We also had no mention of if the Karstarks, Manderly, and the Freys three things the book had been setting up for that battle for the better part of the book.

• I just realllllly want to know more about this zombie knight Clegane/Robert Strong dude.  like now.

• It's no big revelation from Varys.  He's just referring to Aegon, with whom we spent a good portion of the book.

• Yes, but it still applies to Aegon, as least potentially.  If Tyrion's the mummer, and IF he hooks back up with Aegon and Connington, then Young Griff could become known to Danaerys as "the mummer's dragon."

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