• You're forgetting though that Stannis keeps a familiar around him, so it might have been the double that got killed

• Fuck that.  No one deserves Ramsay.

• Night gathers, and now my watch begins. It shall not end until my death.

• So if the Wall comes down, is Jon freed of his oath to the Night's Watch?

• What always got me was that in Robert's Targaryen killing impulses, he didn't once consider that his family is a double dipped offshoot of the Targaryens, from Aegon's bastard brother and Egg's daughter who married a Baratheon. He shoulda offed himself after The mountain killed Ellia and her children...

• Do....do you think he would let me redesign his website for him...like for free? Cause that's pretty bad looking. And it appears that he actually PAID a design service of some sort to make it... Mr Martin: If you ever read this. I have designed corporate pages for several Fortune 500 corporations. I will design you a new website for the price of a signed version of all the ASoFaI books. Thank, Me

• Death is just an inconvenience.

• I feel like Ramsay Bolton is lying, because he lies about everything. My guess is that he couldn't find Stannis, so he's going after Snow.

• Three-headed dragon = 3 living Targaryans = Dany/Aegon/Jon Snow

• I don't know that the watch is *justified* in killing Jon. He's made a lot of unpopular, but necessary, moves.

• I love the GOT books but you need a character sheet to keep everyone straight, particularly when they are (apparently) minor or only appear every other book.

• A side note...  Unless I misunderstood, Stannis has the Bolton ravens frrm the Maestor and could send back false messages to Ramsey. Thus shapeing the ideas put forth in the above letter, and setting up a sneak attack on Ramsey.

• While the Watch would have been justified in killing Jon, I think it was the skinchanger Borroq jumping into the men of the watch to attack him. I also think Jon is a Targaryan, and that this is just the set-up for the next part of his story.

• What's more, Mel is a better Red Priest(ess) than Thoros ever was. Thoros can bring them back, but they come back wrong. Maybe Mel can bring them back to true life. What this might cost her is another question...

• Arya will be much older if he does run into her. Plus she is one of the faceless now.

• I agree that Theon's actual crime was worse than killing the Stark boys. I agree that he doesn't deserve our sympathy. The thing is, I can't help but feel sorry for him anyway, whether he deserves it or not. I think that's the point and it's something that I like very much about GRRM's writing. Jaime doesn't deserve our sympathy, not Cersei nor the Hound, but he stills makes us sympathise with them to an extent. Even with the little monster Joffrey, who everyone wanted dead GRRM was careful to emphasise that he suffered in his final moments, rather than revel in his death. I like it. It's mature writing.

• Who cares if he didn't actually kill the Stark boys?  In my eyes his crime is WORSE, he killed an innocent family and skinned children merely so he wouldn't look like a fool.  He continues to receive no sympathy from me; while I don't mind the fact that he remains a POV character, he deserves everything he's getting and worse.

• I think that there have been enough hints at Jon being Lyanna and Rhaegar's kid, but did the episode when the zombie is going after Mormont let us know that he's not a 'dragon,' in that his hand was injured by the fire? And yeah, I don't think Jon was killed in the attack.

• wow.....his website looks terrible.

• Just found a couple of interesting quotes on GRRM's "Not A Blog" blog: "(The chronology, as usual, is tricky. This chapter will be found eventually at the beginning of WINDS, but as you will be able to tell from context, it actually takes place before some of the chapters at the end of DANCE)." Hrmmm... Also: "(FYI, there will be a different sample chapter from WINDS OF WINTER included at the end of the paperback edition of A DANCE WITH DRAGONS when that is published next July)." SQUEEE!

• The time overlap idea is spot on. Martin warns us in his not a blog. http://grrm.livejournal.com/

• Agreed that the website resembles the spewings of a per-pubescent nerd wrote the entire thing in Notepad, but seriously this man needs to be writing more books and less code. I think he should be locked into a padded room and fed an uber-healthy diet with weekly doctor visits until the series is completed.  Cause if he dies before it's done ... that would just be bad.

• Who has a sneaking suspicison that maybe she found the Azor Ahai, and that Jon is in fact the real "Prince that was Promised". As much as a dislike the character of Melisandre, her chapter was informative. Man, I hope this is the case, 'cause then all that speculation of Jon's legit parentage would be right. 

• Anyone notice how Alysane Mormont is going to Braavos? What are the chances that she'll be able to recognize a regular faced Arya if they come across each other? Not that it's ever specifically said, but I bet that the Mormonts being incredibly loyal to House Stark probably have had a few run-ins with the Stark ankle biters?Or at least with Lyanna, who is said to look like Arya. No? Anyone? And Ramsay's letter to the Nights Watch he specifically says that he wants his bride and his Reek back. Which means Jeyne Poole and Theon got away (maybe?)... My vote is on Asha/Iron Islanders interference and fleeing.  Also Sansa for Queen of Westeros (or at least the North)! Poor girl has been shat one throughout the entire series, she really deserves to be cut a break.

• I had thought initially after reading this that the reason "Reek" and Fake Arya got away because of something Asha did with the rest of her Iron Islanders and with the help of the Braavosi banker (guess not him now?). After reading the new excerpt I'm pretty sure Asha is up to something. She's a wily one. 

• http://grrm.livejournal.com/257002.html On his blog he does say that. There is overlap and this excerpt most likely takes place before Ramsay's forces meet Stannis'. He even goes so far as to say to Massey that he has to bring a force to the Wall, no matter if Stannis is dead or alive. 

• Well, he has mentioned that it is sadly outdated and plans for its re-design are supposedly in the works. Personally I don't care what his site looks like if he just gets cracking on the final two books.

• I think Jon may get the Beric Dondarrion treatment. They do have a red priestess on hand at the Wall.

• I haven't read any of the books, so I have nothing to add with regard to that, but I love that his website design looks like it was done by a High School girl based on her Trapper Keeper from Junior High.

• YES.

• So he can't have smashed Stannis because then he'd have Theon/Reek back...

• I'm pretty sure Jon was indeed stabbed "to death."  How he comes back from the dead is a different question.  The reason why I think he was stabbed to death was because his resurrection will free him from his vows he made when he took the black.  All those vows ended when his life did. 

• Decent snippet to be sure. I would love to be optimistic and think that TWoW is the book to pull this series out of its' nosedive. But all the dead but not dead stuff is really turning me off. It's almost like Martin is second-guessing all his previous moves and now wants a bunch of do-overs. There used to be exciting speculation as to whether or not Lyanna and Rhaegar were Jon's parents, personally I always speculated that Rhaegar was actually Varys and that it was some other knight that Robert slew (they always talked about Rhaegar's jewelled armor in the river, not seeing his actual corpse). New predictions, as Jon got the Ides of March treatment, he 'jumps' into his wolf, then 'jumps' into a new body. Then, if ASoIaF fans don't shit themselves over this, he'll retcon Ned back into the mix by saying he was ALSO a shapeshifter all along, and 'jumped' into a random rat before being beheaded, and then 'jumped' into a human body. Or something like that.

• I know as the reader we're supposed to hate Theon but I've always had a soft spot for him. He's a very tragic character that I can relate to in a lot of ways. I very much hope he lives and, as someone else said, achieves some kind of redemption.

• A lot of this Ramsay could have found out from Tybald. However, of interest is the fact he thinks Jon Snow has Theon. That could mean a lot of things. Did Ramsay in fact defeat Stannis, and not find Theon amongst the camp? That could have been because Stannis killed. Or it could be that Ramsay is lying, and didn't get any updates from Tybald advising that Jeyne and Theon went to Stannis. 

•  Re: Theories about Jon and Dany being Ice and Fire. I like to think that the Ice and Fire part of the series title  just means North Vs South, or Wrights Vs Dragons, or Westeros Vs Essos. R + L = J seems obvious but I really hope GRRM doesn't go this way. Of course, this is just my opinion and I don't bother scouring the net for theories/explanations/hidden clues.

• Here's Ramsay Bolton's letter, to help fuel the discussion: "Bastard, Your false king is dead, bastard. He and all his host were smashed in seven days of battle. I have his magic sword. Tell his red whore. Your false king's friends are dead. Their heads up on the walls of Winterfell. Come see them, bastard. Your false king lied, and so did you. You told the world you burned the King-Beyond-the-Wall. Instead you sent him to Winterfell to steal my bride from me I will have my bride back. If you want Mance Rayder back, come and get him. I have him in a cage for all the north to see, proof of your lies. The cage is cold, but I have made him a warm cloak from the skins of the six whores who came with him to Winterfell. I want my bride back. I want the false king's queen. I want his daughter and his red witch. I want his wildling princess. I want his little prince, the wildling babe. And I want my Reek. Send them to me, bastard, and I will not trouble you or black crows. Keep them from me, and I will cut out your bastard's heart and eat it. Ramsay Bolton, Trueborn Lord of Winterfell" -A Dance With Dragons, pp.907-908.

• Would like to point out:  it is "A Song of ICE and FIRE".  Snobby, sure, but I have been corrected on this more than once since I originally learned about the series from TR.

• EDIT: don't know why discus decided to post that

• Rikkon. He's the one Stark we've never gotten to know, he's the wild one, he's the one who'll survive. Just like Martin to give us a winner we don't know...

• Acctually the Targaryan genes are likely resessive as they always interbreed to keep the blood line pure. So its not out of reach to say that Jon takes after his mother. Arya looks like Lyanna and jon looks like Arya. Also Baelor Breakspear was Targaryan but he took after his mother the dornish princess I cant remember her name

• Yeah, I got all that.  The Bran-As-A-Raven was *way* too obvious for me. Bran's listening, but I'm gonna wait until I see Bran *do* something. Theon should be dead, so no reaction to that. Fake Arya getting busted -- almost got excited until I realized that Jon was killed/seriously hurt at end of the ADoD. Some (a lot?) of people think Jon is coming back via his Warging abilities much like his uncle Benjen resurrected. If we think about that, the scene is going be *REALLY* weird. And yeah, Golden Company =/= Tyrion.  All in all, its a nice scene, well written etc. But no goose pimples. 

• But the Golden Company is working for Griff and .... little Griff who's really not but who's name I can't remember.  

• Rob, Tyrion is with the Second Sons not the Golden Company which has already been bought by the Aegon and Connington. I agree with you assumption of  Bran listening in. Is Mormont's raven the three eye crow's lacky? or Bran from the Future?  

• doesn't being a Targaryan mean having freaky platinum blond hair?  OMG!  The big reveal in Winds of Winter will be John Snow's regular sessions with hair dye!  Administered by Sam!  And since Sam's far away the blond starts to grow out! I just solved the Song of Ice and Fire guys!

• Excepts are coming.

• As I see it, Theon spills his guts when he reaches the Baratheon camp, including the info about Mance being Abel. Maester Tybold is party to this and that is part of the letter he sent to Winterfell. That's how Ramsey knows about Mance in the letter he sends Jon Snow. We don't know whether the Boltons actually have Mance or any of the spear wives, but at least we know how Ramsey knows about them. This puts the events of the excerpt at about the same time that Jon is reading his letter and getting stabbed shitless.

• Also it looks like someone's webgoblin was copying code: the page title is "Wild Cards Sample" in the html.

• I think Martin excels in making us feel sorry for people we were set up to hate. We hated Jaime when he shoved Bran out the window, yet I found myself absorbed by his story. And Sansa certainly showed some Stark mettle later on - showing more courage than Cersei did in book 2.

• HELLS YES! So awesome and unexpected. It doesn't answer a whole hell of a lot but it was still nice to have some new stuff to mull over. I'll have to find time to re-read the last bit of A Dance with Dragons to help with the analysis. 

• Me too. And my gut feeling is Lyanna actually ran off with Rhaegar and wanted nothing to do with Robert. Not sure if Ned kept this info from Robert, or Robert was living in denial all those years.

• This is my theory on Jon as well. Ned's love for his sister and not wanting to see her only child destroyed by Robert and his wacky Targaryan hating ways caused him to besmirch his honor and claim the child as his own. Being the whole thing is 'A Song of Ice and Fire' I think the winners will be Jon and Dany.

• Ramsey definitely has Mance, hence how he knows what he knows... Or at the very least he has some of Mance's crew still alive. King Stannis is definitely not dead UNLESS Martin is DELIBERATELY trolling us and will kill him in the next chapter. Jon Snow = also not dead.

• How much time could have passed though between Theon's escape and Ramsey's letter to Jon? Surely not much. You get the sense here the Stannis has been at this village for a bit...

• He was definitely stabbed.  "To death"?  Who knows?  I remember being pissed off for several chapters of ASOS because I thought Arya had been killed.

• But Stannis might <i>not</i> be alive.  It's been a few months since I read ADWD, but this seems to be taking place right before the battle where Stannis (might have) snuffed it.

• If Ramsay was lying about having Stannis, I wonder if he was lying about Mance too. Alternately... what if there is some time overlap between the end of ADWD and the beginning of TWOW?  It's possible that this chapter comes before Ramsay sends his letter to Jon.  That could explain why GRRM would release such a spoilery excerpt.

• I'm going with Jon Snow.  He gets saved before he is killed by the Night's Watch; and I fairly believe that he is the legitimate son of Lyanna Stark and Rhaegar Targaryan.

• I find myself kind of pitying Theon, against my will.  As big a douche as he is, he didn't actually kill the stark boys and he seems to have more than paid for the betrayal of Winterfell via his imprisonment/torture. As a side note, I'm quite curious as to what's going to happen when Stannis and the Onion Lord are reunited.

• *orgasms*

• Perhaps not to death.  Death isn't quite what it used to be.

• We need to get Sherlock Holmes level deductions going on and see if we can infer anything from this excerpt that will garner information on Arya, Sansa, and Tyrion.   Rob has a good one. Golden Company = Tyrion coming back. With Dany maybe? I don't know. Justin Massey to Braavos means that Arya will probably kill him. Killing Theon in a heartwood means that Bran becomes an Old God and does... things...   Listen it's not an exact science.    My prediction. Winner of the Game of Thrones is: Sansa Stark   BOOM! goes the dynamite. /dropthemic

• Theon can't die until he saves some sort of the day.  He's Gollum.  It wasn't Frodo who destroys the Ring, it's the broken, pathetic husk that was Gollum.  So, in my head, Smeagol is to Theon Greyjoy as Gollum is to Reek.  Theon may be a traitor, he may be a broken man, but he still needs his redemption.  And I know that Gollum was just trying to take the Ring back for himself, but he still destroys it.  I see the same arc in store for Theon.

• I like to think of Martin as spanish.  That way I can justify spelling his first name with a "J".

• Fake Arya still wouldn't get busted (right?). Because the threat of discovering Fake Arya is Jon Snow at castle black. But Jon Snow was stabbed to death (right?).

• • Stannis is alive • He's going to hire the Golden Company, which means Tyrion and lot of other folks are coming back • Fake Arya's going to get busted • Theon might FINALLY get his ass killed • I say the chances of Bran listening to that conversation via raven is about 1:1

• must … resist … spoilers …

• we'll see...

• http://28.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_ltgllqX6J81qllv0yo1_500.jpg

• HEY-O!

• Wisestford -- old, lame comment is old and lame. A lovely Christmas gift from GRRM ... just a taste, but more than I'd expected. I'm confident we'll be seeing numbers 6 and 7 quicker than we saw No. 5.

• What's there to be freaked out over? It's a nice excerpt, but there's no goose pimples for me. 

• Holy crap, George actually wrote content? We actually see the end of this book series yet! I can only imagine the grief if he kicked it before he finished them, and I can definitely imagine the irony of being outlived by a GRRM character.

• freaking out? is that what bloggers are calling it now? :)

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