10 Reasons No One Cares About Wonder Woman
Posted at 5:05 AM Aug 14, 2008
By Alicia Ashby
DC Comics is giving Wonder Woman a big push these days. She’s co-starring in their new weekly book, Trinity, where Kurt Busiek and Fabian Nicieza carefully explain how she’s one of the three superheroes who are more important than everyone else in the universe. She’s got a new direct-to-DVD animated series coming up, penned by fan-favorite comic book writer Gail Simone… who, hey, is finally salvaging something readable out of the 2006 relaunch of DC’s monthly Wonder Woman comic book.
You’d think people would in a frenzy of Wonder-mania, the same as we were during the great Superman media blitz that preceded the mediocre Superman Returns, or the Batman blitz that predated the total rad Dark Knight flick. And yet, and yet… look, let’s be honest: nobody cares about any of this. Nobody really cares about Wonder Woman. There have been times in the past when people sort of cared about her for awhile, but it’s wishful thinking to say she’s as important—or even as interesting—as Superman or Batman just because she’s nearly as old.
In fact, here are ten reasons why nobody really cares about Wonder Woman, even if they say they do. At best, people care about all the things that Wonder Woman could be, but isn’t, thanks to the character’s long history of editorial mismanagement, bizarrely bad writing, and a near-total lack of focus.
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10) Madame, Please Put on Some Pants
Let’s start with a basic problem, the character’s look. Wonder Woman’s costume, much like Superman and Batman, hasn’t really changed that much since her Golden Age appearances. If you don’t believe me, then check out the cover of the first issue of her Golden Age series…
… and the cover of the first issue of her recent relaunch.
See? The shorts have become more a star-spangled leotard and the bustier designs are slightly different, but that’s it. This is something of a problem.
While the original, Golden Age Wonder Woman comics expressed little more than a wistful desire for something like a feminist movement (with spankings!) to happen, Feminism has become a real-world concept between then and now. Women dress differently now, for different reasons, and ideas about what a woman’s outfit expresses have changed.
In the '40s, a woman in short-shorts was telling you she was no housewife! She was going to go out and do all kinds of unladylike things that involved exercise and possibly building muscle. In the 90’s, a woman who’s rolling into battle wearing a leotard resembles… um… nothing so much as an extremely angry underwear model.
9) There Are No Great Wonder Woman Stories
If a friend of yours is getting interested in superheroes and asks for some really great story recommendations, what kind of thing are you going to tell your buddy to read? You’ll probably recommend stand-alone, influential stories featuring minimal continuity and big-name creators at the top of their game. If you buddy likes Batman, you’ll send him to The Dark Knight Returns, Batman: Year 100, or The Killing Joke. If it’s Superman, you can point your pal at Whatever Happened to the Man of Tomorrow, Red Son, or Secret Identity. If it’s Wonder Woman… uh...
… shit. The best Wonder Woman ever manages is coming along for the ride in big universe-wide stories like Kingdom Come and New Frontier, or weirdo costume dramas like Wonder Woman: Amazonia. In terms of stories that would actually make you think Wonder Woman is a great character? Apparently DC’s got absolutely nothin’.
8) In Fact, Most Wonder Woman Comics Are Completely Terrible
Where Wonder Woman has seen the bulk of her superhero action has been in her solo comics, and as a member of assorted Justice clubs over the years. When she’s hanging around with a team, Wonder Woman tends to just be a bruiser who’s also good at restraining and extracting information from people. In an anthology, her solo stories could be a bizarre if welcome change of pace.
In her monthly comic, which DC doggedly struggles to keep in publication, Wonder Woman tends to be at her worst. There have been good runs, most modern and heavily revisionist, by the likes of George Perez, Greg Rucka, and the aforementioned Gail Simone… but the vast majority of classic Wonder Woman comic book stories are absolute dreck, and often to a far greater degree than your run-of-the-mill bad comics. I mean, just look at some of this shit. It’s like DC was hiring twelve-year-olds, and not talented ones like Jim Shooter, either.
7) Golden Age Wonder Woman Comics Were Really, Really Terrible
Now, Wonder Woman is bad throughout most of her “classic” period, which gives modern writers precious little to draw upon when trying to make her modern comics interesting. It’s not a case of her Silver Age being degenerate from more promising Golden Age adventures, either. If you go back to the original Wonder Woman comics done by her original creators… Jesus Christ. A Golden Age Superman or Batman story may be crude, but there’s still something fundamentally recognizable about it. You can imagine how the characters got from that old Point A to their shiny, modern Point B.
Wonder Woman’s Golden Age books are hallucinogenic nightmares of bad plot, arbitrary story, and lots of loving depictions of fetishistic behavior that are just quaint and ridiculous now. From the lousy lettering to the bad writing to the poorly-composed artwork, I’d be tempted to say that Golden Age Wonder Woman comics are just unreadable to the modern fan. Check out the examples below, and bear in mind that almost every single Golden Age Wonder Woman story is exactly this crude and insane in almost every single panel of every page.
And there are hundreds of them.
6) Her Lasso of Bondage
Wonder Woman’s signature weapon is her magic lasso, which modern writers desperately struggle to make interesting. It’s unbreakable, and can compel you to tell the truth, and would be appropriate for roughly a 4th-level campaign in D&D. Sometimes it’s almost sad how eager modern creators are to get more martial, interesting-looking weapons like swords and spears into Wonder Woman’s hands.
I can’t blame them, though. We covered a lot of the god-awful goofy baggage Wonder Woman’s terrible Silver and Golden Age comics saddle her with, but the Golden Lasso is probably the worst. You see, in the Golden Age, the Lasso compelled you to obey Wonder Woman’s commands. In part, this is because Wonder Woman was an agent of Aphrodite tasked with ending violence, and in part because her creator William Moulton Marston had some incredibly unusual ideas about world peace.
You see, “Charles Moulton”, as he signed his comic, had some very loving relationships that involved women he adored tying him up and probably spanking him. Somehow he moved from his own personal enjoyment to deciding that if the entire world could adopt a similar domination/submission fetish, the result would be world peace. Everyone would either have loving subbies to lovingly dominate, or be lovingly vice versa.
So, well… the comics are full to the brim with bizarre, uncomfortable shit like this.
Comments
Great list except you forgot that Wonder Woman would TOTALLY be a lesbian and DC can't seem to handle that. She was raised on an island of immortal women who've been isolated from men (after being abused by them) for THOUSANDS of years, and somehow there's no monkey business going on. Uh huh.
A lesbian WW would at least be interesting.
Posted 08/14/2008 at 08:38:49 AMI've seen one great use of the invisible pane lately. In the New Frontier movie, Wonder Woman comes flying back after a rough battle and parts of the cockpit are visible because they're covered in her blood. Awesome visual.
Unfortunately, yeah, Wonder Woman has never interested me that much. I did greatly enjoy her portrayal in the Justice League cartoons, though. I'm surprised the comics haven't picked up on the Batman/Wonder Woman attraction.
Posted 08/14/2008 at 08:56:00 AMIf DC Comics is so damned determined to keep Wonder Woman in the public eye, why not play up her strengths (as few as they are)in her own title by making it a team book? The few issues of John Byrne's run that held any interest was the storyline where WW's mommy was battling alongside the Justice Society. For that bief storyline I actually gave a crap about buying the following issue. In other words, if DC wants Wonder Woman to do well as a book, then they need to load the deck with an impressive super-powered supporting cast, otherwise they should cut their losses and devote their energies towards other more deserving characters.
BTW, funny that you would restrain yourself from mentioning that Wonder Woman's original "artist" went by the pen-name Harry G. Peter. I guess Humongous F'N. Cock was already taken.
Posted 08/14/2008 at 09:06:41 AMGood list. Sad but true. I wanna like WW, but yea, she's lame.
Posted 08/14/2008 at 09:44:55 AMExcellent work on that list. Great points, and some of that stuff really makes you wonder how the character ever got established as suitable reading for juveniles in the first place.
BlindSquirrel:
Great list except you forgot that Wonder Woman would TOTALLY be a lesbian and DC can't seem to handle that.
It's not an issue of being able to "handle" anything. DC may be able to get way with Batwoman and recasting every other minor female character as a homosexual, but to do the same to their most prominent superheroine would be marketing suicide for the character, and they know it.
Posted 08/14/2008 at 09:49:09 AM... I care.
Posted 08/14/2008 at 09:53:31 AMI care too.
Posted 08/14/2008 at 10:45:12 AMI have to agree. WW only works in team situations. I would say the disinterest in WW in general might be due to the overwhelming number of male comic readers, but even the female comic geeks I know will take Batman, Watchmen or Y The Last Man over WW anyday, hands down.
Plus, Greek Isles suck.
Posted 08/14/2008 at 11:47:02 AMAlso,
#11. Wonder Woman isn't sexy.
Shouldn't she be? The biggest female icon in the DC universe and she doesn't do it for us. Power Girl, Catwoman, Black Canary, Supergirl - all sexier than Wonder Woman. Perhaps if she was a blatant lesbian instead of just a man hater, we'd dig her more.
Posted 08/14/2008 at 12:23:40 PMWell said, very true article. I think that DC has focused so much on having an A-list female superhero that WW has become politically correct dog and pony show. There is much more being female than being able to beat up men, and WW's lagging success behind other female superheroes, like Catwoman or even Sailor moon is proof of that.
Posted 08/14/2008 at 12:56:31 PMIf you're going to go all-adult, then making her bi-sexual would definitely give an edge. Batman or Catwoman...or both?
But seriously, I'd skip that. I agree with the lame sidekick & villains. She doesn't surround herself with anyone we care about. She is needs a home. What is she trying to protect? Even Superman stayed in Metropolis most of the time. Batman had Gotham. Can anyone name the city that Wonder Woman protects?
Back to the villains, what kind baddies does Wonder Woman fight besides an assortment of rejects? Superman fights CEO Madmen, Giants, and aliens. Batman fights maniacs hiding in the dark. Wonder Woman need some consistency.
I think the main issue with Wonder Woman is that all the things that we do know about her seems hokey. She's got a magic lasso that makes people tell the truth, is an Amazon, likes to wear short skirts, flies an invisible plane, and wears a beauty pageant tierra.
Posted 08/14/2008 at 01:09:44 PMI agree with Kevin above. Wonder Woman is one of the best characters in the JL/JLU cartoons. I've wanted to like her in the comics as well but they are just too boring or annoying. Steve Trevor sucks but adding more supporting cast for her would just have the same result. We want to see a Wonder Woman done right. Why this has only been accomplished in the Justice League cartoons, I have no idea.
Posted 08/14/2008 at 01:53:12 PMBTAS, JL/JLU, etc. managed to somehow get a lot right by distilling the best from DC Comics' messy past and even improving it. Hawkgirl, for instance, received her best ever treatment in the cartoons, IMO.
Posted 08/14/2008 at 02:07:21 PMwonder woman was a lackluster character to start with, besides marvel shits on DC. I know comic movies have become lucrative these days, but this WILL be the exception. It has been spoken.
Posted 08/14/2008 at 04:17:18 PMHmmm,
Yes, Wonder Woman hasn't been relevant with the times, especially now...Her body might have been ahem curvier BUT there's nothing else that would keep any DC fan (like me) hooked on her...
Yes, why not have an evil twin with black tights and bustier or a meteorite carrying black goo invented by aliens infecting her or Wonder Woman's coming out and saying she is lesbian and in the later series, decides to be bisexual (can't get enough of Superman's ahem powers) hmmmmm...
or this would be really cool! How about when somebody pours hot water, she becames a male Hugo Boss model and if she were poured with cold water...She would become well, Wonder Woman (Well, yeah, shades of Ranma 1/2)...
BUT then again Wonder Woman looks HOTTTTEERRR than ever and she is becoming to look like a Varga Pin-Up girl lately ;)
Posted 08/14/2008 at 07:03:54 PMMaybe a movie can boost wonder woman just like they did for elastigirl (the incredibles) and invisible woman (fantastic 4)
Posted 08/14/2008 at 07:12:50 PMThis is exactly why we don't have a real Wonder Woman movie as well, even after all this time. Josh wanted to give us one. He wanted to take the character to new levels. Break ground and chance out of the old mythos and give us a WW with solid character, true heart and put some 'meat on the bones' so to speak.
Josh would have changed the character's appearance in look and costume, and brought her up against a worthy adversary. A win-win situation for all of us to enjoy. But it would go against too much of the DC stone-walled faces who still cling to failed past history for the sake of a dying continuity and chronology of WW's life.
And for this failure on DC's part, Josh walked, and we all lost a true-glimpse of what could have been. What actually could have been the turning point...and a new beginning.
Posted 08/14/2008 at 07:21:31 PMUnless you're not aware, a panel in one of the issues in the 80s relaunch indicated quite clearly that the Amazonians indeed engaged in female/female sex, whether technically "lesbian" or not. One of the island's residents was speaking with a male member of the Christian clergy come to visit. It was stated in a matter of fact "Well, of course," kind of way, along the lines of yes, we've been here for thousands of years, what do you think, dumbass. Subtle enough tho that a child would not have understood. To be sure, one of comicdom's finest moments.
Posted 08/14/2008 at 07:29:17 PMI love Wonder Woman but I have to say that I completely agree with this list. It's spot on, especially your points about crappy villans. They are worse than crap, they're just not memorable. I also agree with your point about poor stories. But in my opinion, the "Who Killed Mindy Mayer" was a real standout issue that I enjoyed as it pointed out what I think is Wonder Woman's biggest problem...her unfailing self-righteousness.
Posted 08/14/2008 at 07:33:27 PMThese are all good critiques, but I think the conclusion you draw is too pessimistic. These are problems with Wonder Woman's past... a truly good storyteller could fill in the gaps in future comics (not every comic has to continuously hearken back to the Golden Age). And Wonder Woman does have some interesting qualities--for example, she's one of the only DC characters willing to use lethal force.
But yeah, I love DC, but they make my inner feminist cringe. The female characters are all doomed to be lame, B-listed, retconned out of existence, or killed off.
Posted 08/14/2008 at 07:40:08 PMIn order to stand tall something needs a solid foundation.
As noted superman has both lois and metropolis.
Batman has both Alfred and Gotham.
Both of these are down to earth, She just kind of floats.
The writers can't seem to decide if she is human or not since she is neither attracted to males or females. In mamy ways she is the compliment of capt. Marvel far more than superman and since Marvel is normally a boy or very young man in real life that limits those options.
For that matter what exactly is she? Made from clay?, so what, in many ways we cal all be said to come from clay since either thats what god made us from or where life started(Both sides agree on the clay).
What this character needs is to likable or hateble enough to be a person in her own right. If you are going to go the trinity route then go ahead and do it, make her batman with enough strength to matter or a superman that actually thinks things through instead of leading with fists.
Quit playing that she is a virgin, who knows she might be, however how can she appreciate what it is to be human if she never participates. We've seen her as a goddess and busted from it for interference, now make her truly mortal and let her get busted from that as well. Would she give up mortality and accept demi or real god hood back to save someone she loves even knowing the price is never going back? We are all defined in part both by what we are willing to sacrifice and what we are willing to defend.
Lets have a cult worshipping the goddess of truth once more forcefully elevating her back to demigod or higher status. lets see her resolve that.
Posted 08/14/2008 at 07:48:59 PMAre you a fucking idiot? I assume this entire piece must be ironic. Otherwise you are even stupider that you come across through words. No, no. Don't bother, no need to say your sorry. Plus,your simplistic one dimensional interpretation is pathetic. Try reading at least one book if you are going to write about a subject.
Also, just so all of you know, I'm not actually a fan of the Wonder Woman comics, but come on--is this guy a total fucking moron? Or intentionally obtuse?--which would, of course, be funny, just inaccurate.
Posted 08/14/2008 at 07:57:47 PMwonder woman is hot and thats all got to say. she should be wearing skimpier outfits.
Posted 08/14/2008 at 07:58:58 PMRe: #10 -- it's not the '90s anymore, guys. :)
Posted 08/14/2008 at 08:00:23 PMThe only interesting take on Wonder Woman I've seen is The Non-Adventures of Wonderella, who is a not-so-subtle Wonder Woman ripoff (including invisible jet and lasso) with a potty mouth.
Posted 08/14/2008 at 08:56:27 PMWow, well written and researched article, can see why you'd write it, you were obviously a fan at one time I'm guessing.
Wonder Women was supposed to be a figure for Women's lib in comics. Kind of like how Lara Croft, and Samus Aran are for video games. At least, that's one side of the coin. She often tended eo get bound but would break free, and that could be interpreted as either a bondage fetish or to signify women breaking free from their former bonds. Also she was born of two women, and that in turn can be interpreted several ways.
If you think about it (or read the heartlessbitches.com post), there are no real female heroes in comic books.
As you've pointed out, one of the more interesting things about Wonder Woman was her creator. He wrote about the lasso of truth first, then went on to develop the systolic blood pressure machine, and later the polygraph machine.
Posted 08/14/2008 at 09:00:10 PMShe is at her best when she is painted as the "one that kills" out of the DC trinity. She is the warrior super(wo)man, not the boy scout.
Posted 08/14/2008 at 10:28:54 PMWW needs to stop being such a manhater. it alienates males from liking her. besides, you just KNOW catwoman does anal.
Posted 08/15/2008 at 12:19:48 AMThe first ten issues of George Perez's run back in the late 80's or early 90's were pretty good and showed promise, but then they kinda tapered out. There's potential there, just nobody's done it yet
Posted 08/15/2008 at 03:26:48 AMIn reason number 5 you reposted the picture of wonderwoman being spanked instead of where she got the invisible plane. Just letting you know
Posted 08/15/2008 at 05:17:03 AMwow. i really like wonder woman, she was a role model when i was a young girl, and she just kicks ass. i don't get how you can complain about her outfit. superhero outfits are not supposed to change. so wtf? so she may not be as awesome as superman or batman, but she still kicks ass!
Posted 08/15/2008 at 01:23:58 PMi don't care what you say, i will always like and love wonderwoman!
Spot on. (Except I'd add #11 - No compelling Origin Story.) I always got the sense that DC comics said, hey, Superman's a huge seller, we need to get us another series like that, and then a bunch of people went into a 1-hour meeting and came up with a female version. Unfortunately, it didn't help that the guy in charge had a serious bondage fetish.
This is why I was so excited to have Joss Whedon in charge of a WW movie. The man's an incredible storyteller with a massive hard-on for strong women. I was looking forward to him injecting all the symbolism and angst and motivation she never had, but deserved, and coming up with something truly EPIC.
Posted 08/15/2008 at 01:53:02 PMthey did find a great reason why batman wears that ridiculous costume and calls himself batman...even though making WW believable is a bigger job i think the right writer could make this movie watchable
Posted 08/15/2008 at 02:57:23 PMI agree Wonder Women is a sleeper. Come to think of it I can't even remember anyone admitting to buying a copy when I was a kid.
Posted 08/15/2008 at 02:59:58 PMIn my alternate universe, Supes & Wonder Woman had a stormy, tempestuous 20-year marriage which ends when Supes dies. WW kills her mother for mocking Supes as he dies and becomes queen. The oldest has a bit of a fling with Apollo and ends up with some of the oracle affect. Their daughter goes on to star as Xena (doing all her own stunts!) and dies in a drug overdose.
Oh, and in this universe, Speedy is Black Canary's son by Oliver Queen. Canary also has a daughter...by Bruce Wayne. ;)
Posted 08/15/2008 at 04:04:55 PMWhat is with all this "man hater" bullshit?
Sounds like something Rush Limpdick would say.
Posted 08/15/2008 at 07:37:53 PMThere is really only one reason why this woman sucks dick: she's a female character written deep in patriarchy, and especially written in an earlier and cruder thickness of patriarchy. Compare black characters written at darker stages of popular white racism (or rather white racism that is now visible to us). Compare Robert A Heinlein's female characters, progressive badasses by Heinlein's standards, but sexually convenient trash requiring explanations from Spider Robinson for moderns.
Posted 08/15/2008 at 07:54:34 PMReally it is possible to fix this, but it would require going in exactly the opposite direction taken by previous comic-cinema successes.
Excellent recent triumphs with Iron Man and Batman took usable key "biographical details" -- this is impossible and counterproductive with Wonder Woman -- and put them in a modernized and viewer-respecting context. With this character the modernized and viewer-respecting context must be the starting point. And of course a decision has to be made between making a serious or an exploitation movie, a decision that has been foolishly avoided for the entirety of the comic.
Or in short beg Whedon to come back.
Postscript: any critique of amazon planet blues ought to mention the very excellent characters and stories that came after Marston's Stanzoniying, such as the "Chicks in Chain Mail" books, anything by Joanna Russ, and especially Promethea.
yourqueenbea
I know, right? Like, at least she's not tied down to talking to fracking dolphins like two different non-starter franchises that seem to be getting more serious attention. If Grant Morrison can bring back what he's brought back there has to be something better for this title.
Posted 08/15/2008 at 08:04:13 PMJLU was the worst truncated version of WW ever.Timm didn't even know what to do with her.The idea that this distilled the best of her?!?Please!She isn't Xena nor Buffy folks.And she is till selling titles,so before you kick her down tell me if Catwoman or anyother X-female sell their own comics consistently?Catwoman can't really work without Batman.
Wonder Woman has not had a live incarnation for decades,and when she does appear in animation in JLU she is Batman's groupie and her powerlevels are inconsistent and you are not sure why she is here.It all got lost in JLU about why she was champion and got sent out to the world as a hero.A prime example of that is how they never included this supposedly best warrior who can go toe to toe with Supes in the finale Destroyed.They make a song and dance of Trinity, but Timm and his creators sent the world's Finest and Lex to take down Darkseid.Not very subtle to me,but the woman was not good enough to do a "mans" job.People who say they like JLU's version need to go and read about this woman's inception and evolution.
If she is not visible it is fault of DC animation and Warner.She can easily have her own cartoon.But when you have a male dominated arena,where Batman is the itboy,what do you expect?
And as for her not having good stories.Please,I dare you people to read from Perez,onto Jiminez,to Rucka to Gail Simone.
Now THAT is what a royal amazon princess,beloved of the gods,champion of peace,justice,truth and hope should be.
Her message gets lost in a need to define her sexuality. Pitiful really.Who cares whether she is straight,bi or lesbian?
She was an inspiration to me and will always be.
Posted 08/18/2008 at 11:11:44 AMGreat article! I agree with much of it and LOL at many comments.
There are indeed GREAT Wondie stories, but they've been few and extremely far between. Now that Gail's onboard, though, I think we'll be seeing a lot more.
(shudder) Just the IDEA of Jim Shooter on the book, much less a 12-YO (2 years younger than Jim started), gives me the heebie-jeebies. Though he did pen a story or two back in the Sixties. (shudder)
There's no problem with the Invisible Jet, ESPECIALLY if Diana's flying ability is deleted. The jet got some good panel time in recent B&B issues. It was a crime to have Batman give Diana a faux-Invisible Jet. WTH? That'll be forgotten now that the real deal is back.
"We already HAVE Superman." Thank you! Exactly why I always say that Wondie should be the leader of DC's MID-POWERED heroes. Let Superman have the uber-powerful folks under his wing. Let Batman boss the non-powereds around. But Wondie should be the empress of all between them, which gives her a chance to struggle (and prevail, of course) in her battles -- which would require her to use her jet (or glide on air currents) since she doesn't fly. And legitimately use the spectacular trademarked Bullets and Bracelets move, something that makes no sense if you make the woman practically invulnerable. Get rid of the constant Superman comparisons. He's already got a galaxy of Supergirls and the occasional Superboy by his side.
"Everybody Hates Steve Trevor." Ain't that the truth. I grew up on Kanigher Stevie, and a more vile character is rarely seen in comics. (Steve Howard was all right, though more than a bit metrosexual.) The current Stevie, married to Etta, is merely a rather bland carryover of mythos. I'm hoping/expecting Gail does something interesting with him.
But why was he used in the first place? To counteract the most difficult drawback WW has: her Cootie Factor. Stevie started as a blond, blue-eyed, All-American flyboy, the top rung on the male hero worship ladder at the time. If he loved Wonder Woman, if he respected her -- then any boy picking up her comic book could feel more comfortable in reading her adventures.
Times have changed.
And yes, her costume needs updating. Keep the iconic value; add material. I've met more comics fans who refuse to read WW simply because she wears a silly costume. Hey, DC! Have comics artists, fans and real-world designers try their hands at WW and publish the results in a fun special issue. Do some thorough test marketing and see what flies. Or glides on air. Then give Wondie some duds we all can be proud of.
Wondie's the best concept ever in superhero comics. Too bad DC has too often missed that tiny fact.
Posted 08/18/2008 at 11:14:20 AMBizarre and kinda weird thread this. Real negative.
I kinda think the main reason WW 'doesnt' sell as much as some other comics is mainly due to the fact shes a woman unfortunately as most readers are men and growing up WW had strong links to woman and gay kids.
That said her book at the moment is spot on and it is far stronger than superman and batman in my opinion. Better art and story.
Sure her costumes kooky but whose isnt, even spidermans is silly but its still the best in comics. Ur reasoning about the shorts being athletic may seem sill nowadays but its a nod to the past and actually knowing that fact makes me like the costume more.
WWs incredibly multifaceted, she isnt as black and white as superman or batman and it is a more difficult origin but shes great. She can be involved in any scenario, myth, heroic, science, crime and yet she fits in.
WWs villains have been a weak point but my what potential she has. These odd quirky psychos could give even Batmans a run IF written well. You may laugh but the weird odd trippy villains she has may just be the tonic and Im sure Gail will do something special. Id also be keen for someone like Grant Morrison or Alan Moore to play around with these 'weak' characters and i think youd see something chillingly briliant also.
Im glad her love life doesnt dominate her book!! Superman is as wet as can be and it ruins him. Many comic friends of mine find him an incredibly dull character who is only iconic due to him being the first.
I m sure theres many other things i could say but I think whats special about WW is, yes shes got the history and shes female and she broke the mould for successful female characters and all that but shes an odd contradiction shes hard as nails, tough and skilled, joyful, charismatic with a fantastic cast, all the myths to explore as well as normal super hero avenues and with a trippy weird past and Gail is building ww into DCs top comic.
The idea no one cares about WW is rubbish. Shes had a successful comic for 60 years, been published in many teams, is a pop culture icon, non readers know her, had a tv series, sells amazingly well in models and figures and trades and great great teams want to use her (Perez, Rucka, Garcia Lopez, Byrne, Simone, Giordano etc), whether they succeed or not is obviously subjective.
DC hasnt treat her well for many years but i think the tide is turning and i bet you in the next 2 years theyl be a thread saying ten reasons why WW is so popular!! x
Posted 08/18/2008 at 11:47:53 AMI find this GROSSLY UNFAIR. I bet I can make any character look foolish if I look at their 40s comics.
It's simple comic's are a man's thing and Wonder Woman is not a man therefore they don't buy it. Simple.
Warner understands it's Wonder Woman's imagine that is iconic not her comic. That is why they produce many items such as t-shirts, figures, statues, banks, dolls, costumes etc. etc. etc. Wonder Woman does sell just not in comics that is a man's market. I'm glad the people who own her rights do understand this. She's ICONIC and all the women I know young and old know who she is and love her, Not to mention all the gay men who love her well.
Posted 08/18/2008 at 07:10:17 PMThis article makes me hurt. Bad. Of course the Golden Age is cheesy, IT WAS WRITTEN IN THE 40's!! As for re-inventing the Golden Age, 'Nice Try'. If you remember about her origins, her mother didn't tell her alot of stuff, so that's where all the conflicting stories lie.
If you like this article then shove it. No true Wondie fan will eat this crap.
Posted 08/18/2008 at 08:31:54 PMThis article makes me hurt. Bad. Of course the Golden Age is cheesy, IT WAS WRITTEN IN THE 40's!! As for re-inventing the Golden Age, 'Nice Try'. If you remember about her origins, her mother didn't tell her alot of stuff, so that's where all the conflicting stories lie.
If you like this article then shove it. No true Wondie fan will eat this crap.
Posted 08/18/2008 at 08:32:13 PMWell researched my ass - this guy has completely ignored the Perez contribution which made the character's mythical background so distinct. As for villains, okay Cheetah might be lame but can the same be said about Ares and Circe?
Posted 08/19/2008 at 12:20:37 AMJeez, try reading the comics post 1986 please?
Great article. The costume's embarassing. They've overpowered Wonder Woman with the idea it would make her Superman's equal, but Superman's DC's poster child and will always end up as #1 when pitted against all the other characters in his weight class, meaning she just comes off as one more knock-off. And the powerless Batman's even more popular than Supes! In the end, she's left with several weapons that she doesn't even need: jet, lasso, bracelets (isn't she invulnerable now? And way too fast for bullets to hit her anyway?). No cast, no memorable city. Steve Trevor. You hit every point.
Posted 08/19/2008 at 12:47:11 AM"Nobody" cares about Wonder Woman because the vast majority of comics readership are young straight males who simply can't ( or won't let themselves ) get on board a series with a female protaganist. Oh, it's fine if she's a supporting cast member or team member or a love interest, but read a book about a "girl"? yeah right.
You can point out the cheese factor in ANY Golden Age comic stories, and as far as DC is concerned, silver age stories as well. I've got the Batman and Superman reprints from that era, believe me I know. Indeed, William Marston had some weird ideas, but the CORE IDEA, the notion that a woman could be strong, a warrior, and spread the notion of equality for everyone was pretty damn ahead of it's time for 1941. And sadly, kinds of still is today as well.
So there aren't any WW stories on par with Dark Knight Returns, Watchmen, or V for Vendetta. Ok, fair. There also aren't any Iron Man, Thor or Green Lantern comics on par with those either, and yet I NEVER see those characters get shit on by fans the way WW has. Perez' work on Wondy was great and still holds up, as does much of Rucka's work and Gail Simone's now. Gods and Mortals, The Hiketia and Wonder Woman: Spirit of Truth are all terrfic reads with great art.
True, Wondy does not have the greatest villains. And her supporting cast is so-so ( Also a Note: Steve trevor has not been her love interest for 23 years now ) Again, I can name other similar heroes like that. Some of them even had $300 Million plus movies this summer that everyone loves.
Wonder Woman CAN be interesting. She is a paradox; a warrior for peace. As noted in Trinity, while Superman is seen as the Protector, and Batman as the vigilante, WW is seen as the instigator of change in a world that doesn't really want to change. And that makes the citizens of the DCU a little uncomfortable, and apparently this translates to the fanboys as well. She is easily the most blatantly political ( not patriotic ) super hero, as she was created with the actual intention of social change by the creator ( Siegal & Shuster and Bob Kane just wanted to tell pulp stories and get paid ) All of these things make her fascinating and enduring now for nearly 70 years.
Posted 08/19/2008 at 01:23:54 AMSure WW is an iconic figure who has glided on her history,the sexist attitudes of the 40's,50's and 60's saw to that.(thank you William Moulton Marston and Robert Kanigher)
Posted 08/19/2008 at 05:51:29 AMBut the post 1986 WW is a far cry better than her Golden -Silver Age self.
Your article makes good points here and there. But is incredibly biased. Any so-called Superhero or heroine can look stupid under the eye of logic.
So picking on the Invisible jet/plane. And saying nothing of the Batmobile;is a little asinine.
WW is living up to her potential nowadays more than ever.
And for the record she originally wore culottes,not a skirt as many have believed.
Thing is, looking at some of the comments here (not all), I can kinda see why Wonder Woman doesn't have the same kind of following as Superman or Batman. All this crap about "oh hey lol it would be gr8 if she was a lesbian" or "omg she shulod have a skimpier costume" suggests that quite a lot of the superhero fanbase just can't quite relate to an actual woman. I don't see anyone demanding Batman show up in only a thong, or Superman should come out of the closet because, let's face it, two busty women in leotards getting it on is kinda hot if you're a straight guy. It's the same kind of attitude that creates the "women in fridges" problem and, indeed, reinforces the stereotype of comic book fans as a bunch of lonely masturbators.
Posted 08/19/2008 at 03:31:13 PMThanks for the article! I agree totally. Back in the 70s I was reading a Dynamite Magazine which featured a Wonder Woman comic strip in back. It was totally anti-male...I remember reading Wonder Woman referring to the world outside of Paradise Island as "the foul world of men." Oh yeah? I was about 10 years old when I read it and I said "F -you Wonder Woman!" (I am a male). It was at that point that I learned that the Wonder Woman story had misandrist undertones. It doesn't surprise me that the creator was a pervert into S&M.
Posted 08/19/2008 at 07:05:50 PMHuh. Why are you using all of the Golden Age stuff to justify this crappy list? If I could only read Golden Age Superman or Batman I would give up comics all together.
Probably the only point on the list I might agree with is that they need to stop over-sexualizing her costume. Wonder Woman should NEVER fight crime in a thong. But your real point was that they should update her costume to be more "modern" or something. Superman fights in blue pajamas with his underwear on the outside. I rest my case.
Posted 08/20/2008 at 05:12:13 AMRobert:
Wonder Woman is not anti-male, but anti-patriarchy. There is a difference. Anyway she's much less anti-male than the entire comic book industry is anti-woman.
Posted 08/20/2008 at 05:20:43 AMYeah, WW is one of those characters that you want to idolize as a little girl, but can't when you realise that she looks like she should be on the cover of Playboy. Recently, one of the artist decked her out in full out plate mail, and she look awesome. Now WW looks like she has stake on the corner of 5th and main.
Posted 08/20/2008 at 09:45:22 AMM,
Who was Wonder Woman's father? She'll always have a chip on her shoulder for she is the spawn of a ...man. and don't tell me she is from another g-ddamn planet or is descended from space aliens or is from a race that reproduces asexually.
Oh, by the way NerdGirl, I wouldn't mind seeing Wonder Woman in the Playboy centerfold.
Posted 08/20/2008 at 11:44:54 PMChristopher Moeller's "JLA: A League of One" (Wonder Woman versus the JLA, and a big dragon!) was good. And there was the bit in Darwyn Cooke's "The New Frontier" where she stands up for the women in Vietnam.
Posted 08/23/2008 at 03:56:03 PMRobert,
Wonder Woman actually does not have a father. Her mother, the queen of the Amazons, formed a baby out of clay, and the Greek Goddesses (plus Hermes) gave it life.
Also, I'm not really sure what you mean by her having a chip on her shoulder. What would she have to prove, even if she did have a father?
Posted 08/23/2008 at 05:20:17 PMPoor Wonder Woman fans. No wonder they don't like Xena -- the general public know more about her than a 60 year old character and is far more interesting of a character (without even possessing superpowers) than she is. So much for Xena being a "rip off" of Wonder Woman when they actually have nothing in common.
Posted 09/05/2008 at 08:11:40 PMEither give her to Alan Moore or give her something to do. A huge mission like save Themiscira from the Neo-cons. Then make it Star Wars in the Wonder Woman mythos then have her lose. That would be interesting.
I liked the Mike Deopdato run, I liked Hiketeia. The lasso needs to be made cool by finding clever yet unthought of uses. An unbreakable golden cable has to have more uses than just as a friggin' lasso lie detector. Lets be creative for once.
I like Wonder Woman, and if they had a consistently good creative team I would buy it every month regardless of your academic points, same as any other character. Supreme was interesting after Alan Moore took over with Chris Sprouse. Get a great writer, not Bendis, and a great artist who can do eleven issues a year. Its not rocket science.
Posted 09/08/2008 at 11:45:38 PMI'd much prefer Gaiman to Moore. I don't really trust him with female characters, despite liking his books.
But I'm liking Simone's current run just fine, and Rucka did amazing things with WW.
Posted 09/12/2008 at 12:33:11 PMDamn. As much as I've defended Wonder Woman over the years, these points are pretty solid. I agree with Kevin on the quality of the character in the JL and JLU cartoons and the potential of a romance with Batman. I also agree about the weakness of her supporting cast and how disposable it is. While I like what Gail Simone has done with the comic, I doubt D.C. is going to give her the freedom to reinvent her in fundamental ways. That's a real shame.
Posted 09/14/2008 at 07:32:11 PMFor the most part, I agree. I wouldn't recommend any of those Batman or Superman stories to start with (they warp the status quo, quite a bit), but that's niether here nor there. Gail simone has made it even worse. I appreciate what's she's trying to do, but it's an epic failure. The book is now on the "Don't waste your time/money" list. And, I'm glad you brought up the supporting characters issue. Her supporting cast is a HUGE reason why the books are garbage. And, to address another comment. Not to step on any toes, but, Diana's...sexual preference. Uh, you see what happened to the "exciting new Batwoman". Plus, it would just be wrong and too much of of a disgusting publicity stunt. If they could just cop out and call the guys from DC's animated stable, then the book might be worth reading. Until then, it's trash.
Posted 09/25/2008 at 11:27:00 AMI care.
The author of this article really has the poison pen out.
Posted 10/08/2008 at 05:34:21 PMI'm sorry, but all your WW-lovers need to chill. She IS an overrated character who is kept around simply because she's been around so long. This has nothing to do with men being afraid of an empowered woman. Hell, I love Zatanna and wish that Zee got 1/4 the press that WW does. It's just that Wonder Woman is obnoxious and flat out unlikable. The fact that she was created to fulfill her creator's bondage fetish (one of the few charges that the anti-comic essay "Seduction of the Innocent" actually got right) just further shows the oddness of her existence. She doesn't have great villains, she doesn't have any memorable solo storylines and she just isn't interesting.
Posted 11/10/2008 at 08:01:18 AMActually her creator's bondage fetish was a coincidence. He created her so that boys would get used to seeing strong women in comics, and thus also in life.
He happened to include some bondage stuff because, well, that's what he liked.
Posted 11/21/2008 at 11:30:22 AMPlease. These days, anyone with a mundane perception and penchant for notoriety is out shoveling their opinionated, vacuous rhetoric by stepping on an American mythos all for the sake of gaining a couple of chuckles from their limited audience.
Try actually reading up on the history of Wonder Woman some time. You’ll find that she is actually the one superhero that has more depth and history to her than you could possibly imagine. Her very presence actually launches from the very spot where the Greek mythos ends, with Hercules, and skyrockets to symbolize an entire movement for women in the United States. Everything about Wonder Woman, from her girdle that was created by the Greek gods to her lasso of truth, to her silver bracers is steeped in legend.
To casually dismiss Wonder Woman because her suit hasn’t changed and she wears underwear is simply a statement of insurmountable ignorance. Why not consider some constructive criticism on something you actually researched in comics with the goal of filling your posts with relevant content instead of opinionated hyperbole? You might find that you actually learned something of value about whatever it is you are attempting to sound educated on.
Posted 12/29/2008 at 03:18:49 PMWell, I'm torn on the issue. On one hand, it's true that most male superhero comics fans are total nerds who can't relate to women in the slightest. That does account for a lot of the problems with Wonder Woman historically. However, after years of publication and attempts by some talented creators, Wonder Woman just doesn't have that much of a character in her solo books. In team books, she shows more personality, but even then she's defined in opposition to the people around her (mainly Batman and Superman). Gail's trying, but it's always a losing battle with Diana on that front (compare how easily Gail made CATMAN into a rounded character!).
I think another issue with Wonder Woman is this - most other major heroes have a mythology that's isolated and unique, and that mythology deeply informs the aesthetic. Superman has Krypton, Smallville, and Metropolis. Batman has Gotham. Green Lantern has Oa and the Corps. The Flash has the laws of physics themselves (and the Speed Force in modern times). Wonder Woman has...ancient Greek myth. Not that her background is a total impediment, as it has provided for some interesting stories, but there's very little in her background that's completely hers. I think that's why writers cling to the Lasso and the Invisible Plane - despite their lameness, they belong to Diana and no one else. Even Captain Marvel, whose powers come from a number of Greek, Roman, and Biblical figures, has elements that belong to his story alone (the wizard and word Shazam!, the transforming lightning, the Rock of Eternity, the kid-into-adult transformation).
Posted 01/23/2009 at 10:14:56 PMI tried to get into Wonder Woman, but I just couldn't get it. Her personality and roll constantly fluctuate in the DC. I'm glad she has her fans, but keeping her as one of the Big Three is just misleading. She just doesn't feel like she has a place. Superman has an origin (Smallville, and technically Krypton, but I'm not counting it) and a home, Metropolis. Batman has foundation for who he was (Bruce Wayne) and what he has become (Batman). But Wonder Woman doesn't have any of that. She has an origin (Themyscira), and that is good. It does lack any drama to it- Superman lost a planet and a family he never knew, and Batman lost his parents and essentially gave up on ever having any kind of human life beyond his mission. Wonder Woman never really moved beyond her origin. She drifts from title to title like a college dropout with no rogues, no home base, no supporting cast, and no story. That's her problem- she needs a home. And when she is shown within the Justice League, she gets some great stories in. Hell, Golden Perfect was excellent. But Golden Perfect wasn't under her own title, and none of her good moments ever are. We are told that Wonder Woman's role, among Superman and Batman, is to inspire mankind to be better than it is- to be the progress while the other two maintain a status quo. But while that's well and good, that definition of her character is never expanded on. We never really see Wonder Woman doing anything like that. It isn't even a superhero role- if she wants to drive Man's World to be better, perhaps she should seek a future in politics. Maybe her role as a humanitarian needs to be made more clear. Wonder Woman isn't a bad character, but she's *not* one of the Big Three, and unless she finds an identity beyond Affirmative Action Girl, she cant support a series by herself.
Posted 01/29/2009 at 05:12:18 PMThis list is pretty ridiculous and it's sad that you and so many others are willing to castrate Wonder Woman for identical issues you'll glaze over for other heroes.
She sucks because her costume hasn't changed much since the Golden Era, but it's acceptable for Batman and Superman.
She sucks because there's no good stories about her, but let's ignore all the times Batman slept in the same bed as Robin or the one where they had a nice spa mud bath or the fact that Superman's head became a giant mood ring for a while or the time he got turned into adventure toddler.
She sucks because her Golden Era stories from SEVENTY years ago are bad. For one, talk about holding a grudge. Perhaps time to move on from what happened in 1942. For two, MOST GE seems odd to us now. Batman's "The Rain Batman". Or perhaps the Batman #29 on the Penny Farthing bikes, because he bikes around so much nowadays. Or #12 where they sold him out and he tells kids to buy War Bonds and stamps. All apparently far more justifiable than her having a lasso and sexuality. Let's just take ALL 'Golden Era' comics with some salt, shall we?
And most of all, she sucks because she's too much like Superman? But the other 99% of characters with similar powers are fine? There's maybe 12 powers that have gone into creating EVERY single superhero with the top 3 being strength, speed and flight. If you're going to castrate her for having some of those, you better put up a whole bunch of others like Rogue, Captain Marvel, Martian Manhunter, Miss Marvel, Fire, etc up too because 99% of heroes fall into having 1-2 if not all 3 of those powers as well. The only difference is that many are (a) not female and (b) diffent colored uniform which is I guess the straw that breaks the camels back.
Posted 05/26/2009 at 07:48:32 PMI am the president of a polygraph company and know of wonder womans history. She was created by a man named William Marriston who was a pioner in developing early polygraph equipment..that spilled over into his wonder woman creation....remember her magic golden lasso forcing people to tell the truth...and the criminal rehabilation helmet...what is less known (but is written about several places) is that he had 2 wives..or families...and sought out musclear strong willed prostitutes as well....wonder woman was a composit fantasy of polygraph research and a strong sexual woman fetish fantacy.....if currious search for books on the life of William Marriston......a bright but excentric man....
Posted 05/28/2009 at 07:22:14 PM