• fuck u all, whedons show is way better than most shows, u must be jealous or retarded i rather think the latter is the case.... and to dirty sanchez. just go die in a corner u fucking idiot. nuff said.

• I've seen a few people that seem to like it, but I'm not even sure it qualified as a cult hit.

• It's hard for me to recognize how Dollhouse came from the same mind as Firefly. Dollhouse lacks everything that made Firefly such an entertaining show.

• I hardcore disliked <i>Dollhouse</i> since the beginning, based entirely on issues I had with the plot -- the main being, why would someone hire a "doll" for a lot of these jobs when they could hire, oh, say, the real thing? In retrospect, I should hold more faith in Whedon, in the sense that the man knows how to weave a good freaking story, even if he takes his time doing it. That said, in my opinion the show would have never progressed, solely because of Eliza Dushku. I want to like her, I really do. But her acting is just too weak. Even if Whedon amped up the plot on <i>Dollhouse</i>, I think Dushku would have prevented it from really achieving any level of greatness...or entertainment...

• Mmm, partially covered boobs...again. I do hope we finally get the "Faith" sninoff that people actually want and may actually be a hit.

• &#64;Geoff: I misread "lowered expectations" because I was already primed for a shot across the Whedonverse bow. That's definitely my bad. Though, I do think calling me "sanctimonious" is a bit hypocritical. We're both tackling this particular argument in very similar ways, so I could make an ad hominem attack like that on you, too. But, I haven't, I merely questioned why you couldn't post on a Whedon thread without criticizing. Of course, I was wrong on that point at that time. As for your follow-up in its entirety: I absolutely agree that his last two shows were sold poorly, though I'm not entirely certain that would be Joss's fault. If it is, I can only think his ego needs him to try to surpass his previous accomplishments by having a successful show on a Big 4 network. I would love for him to achieve that, but, you're right (and we haven't disagreed on this point), the material he produces isn't likely to make that happen. We also, it seems, whole-heartedly agree on Smallville. I don't think there's any way we could ever agree on Joss Whedon's current ouvre. We simply view the same materials utterly differently. I guess it's a matter of tastes, and you can't argue with that.

• Good riddance to another TV show with that fucktard Eliza Dushku and her shitty acting skills. She is a real pain in the pussy. I have not seen one show that I thought she could escape from a paper bag. And Joss? Well, fuck him and his shit writing skills too!

• Couldn't make it three days without Joss Whedon huh? Is there some sort of rehab program for this? Like where they strap you down and make you watch the things he was a part of that WEREN'T a nerdgasm of awesome? Like Alien Resurrection? Or Titan A.E.? Or that awful Atlantis movie? Let me remind you....the man used to write for Roseanne! I mean come on! How can you praise the man so much if he was a part of that obese abortion of 30 minutes on a weekly basis!

• &#64;Greg...Yep its on and between seasons at the moment...and not convoluted at all, although if you can't handle numerous multiple seasoned story arcs within a show you might want to stick to re-runs of Law and Order. Back to Dollhouse.....nobody can be surprised by this news, it was dangling by a thread thinner than its premise from mid-season one.

• I think it's on it's mid-season hiatus or whatever; but, yeah, it's continued life, like the show it self, simply baffles the mind.

• The most fascinating piece of information I have gleaned from the comments on this thread is that Lost is still on. Really? When does it air? Is it still a convoluted clusterfuck? Are there still rabid fans out there preaching how great that show is?

• That wasn't even a dig - just that Whedon isn't ever going to be able to draw a mainstream audience, and therefore should stick to networks that don't have high expectations for viewership. The WB had lowered expectations of viewers for a network, Whedon met them. If telling the truth is taking a shot, well, I don't need some sanctimonious fanboy complaining about that. If Whedon produced a sci-fi show I liked, I'd praise him. But he doesn't, and I don't see any ability to praise him for making shows that both fail to understand what people want out of a TV show, fail to be sold to the proper networks, or fail to retain the viewers who do give him a chance. You'll note that I'm just as hard on Smallville in the other thread on the main page today, and if Rob presumably posts a Doctor Who thread for Waters of Mars this weekend, I'll be more than happy to express my enthusiasm for that. I support quality products and good business decisions of niche properties; Whedon has shown no inclination towards either in recent years, and, as noted, his only "successes" came on networks that had such low expectations that virtually any show that attracted a regular audience would succeed. If he ever sells a show to a real network that lasts longer than the 24 episodes or so of Dollhouse, I'll admit I'm wrong. But that isn't happening any time soon, especially as more and more genre fans see through his limited repertoire.

• &#64;Abraxas: Dissent is fine. Obviously. I just bristle when someone lacks such self-control that in an otherwise helpful, informative, and non-biased post, they feel so compelled to throw in a dig. When that dig is the same unoriginal dig the person issues everytime Whedon's name is mentioned, it gets old.

• Pretty sure the reason Whedon continues to work with FOX is because they're buying what he's pitching. The big three are flirting with sci-fi again, but that's after a long drought. It just so happens that Joss came into his own as a writer during that period. Will his next project be for one of the oldguard networks? Perhaps perhaps. But if "V" doesn't hit while "Heroes" flounders and "Lost" yo-yos it may be another good while before they gamble on sci-fi again. The stuff we like is expensive compared to reality shows that can fail on the cheap. I'd like to see what a Whedon-HBO pairing could produce, but I don't see it happening any time soon. HBO likes comedy, crime, and shows that are self-consciously grown-up. That's not Joss.

• what's wrong with announcing one's dislike of something? no one's got a problem announcing their likes; surely, we can handle a few people not agreeing with us? - or is even a whiff of dissent not allowed?

• ohh yes please a hbo whedon series would be so awesome

• &#64;Geoff: Well, I appreciate your pseudo-defense of my logic, and others, for suggesting a different network. But you had to come back with a shot at Whedon, eh? It isn't about "meeting lowered expectations," it's simply because his audience is a niche and his audience-potential is also niche, so, his shows have a harder battle than, say, House or another CSI. Does every single post you make on this blog have to announce your dislike of Joss Whedon?

• 'If it failed on a prime time network what chances does it have to succeed in Sci-Fi? ' Different business models. A network succeeds or fails largely on viewership numbers, whereas cable channels have the advantage of being able to succeed with lower viewers because they're receiving some revenue from subscription fees. So you know how BSG was a big hit on SyFy? It would have died in about ten episodes if it was on Fox. (Buffy and Angel only stuck around because they were on the WB network, where if you got more than two people to tune in you were in their top ten shows at the time. Whedon great at meeting lowered expectations.)

• Come on people don't be so surprised. And why does everyone always say "So and so should take it to this network." If it failed on a prime time network what chances does it have to succeed in Sci-Fi? There was a reason why no one watched this show...

• ...thats what you get for canceling TSCC...seriously...the 2 best shows left this year in scifi are... stargate universe and V ??? good lord...bad year for scifi...bad year.

• Big freakin surprise. Yeah, why does Whedon hang with the fucks at FOX?

• Poor Summer Glau. It seems like she is cursed. Everything she touches is canceled. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Summer_Glau#Filmography

• the axe comes when it comes and oceans of topless Glau shots cannot give life to an abomination that died at birth. oh, why do the Losts and the Fringes and the Heroes get airtime and the Dollhouse not another week? like lips to Wheedon!ass are we to gods....

• Yeah, Dollhouse was pretty bad. I could never really get that interested, because I kept getting pulled out of the show by thinking of the implications inherent in it. Assuming that as darkly hinted there's some SECRET AGENDA that the powers behind the Dollhouse have. a. They have functioning immortality. Record a person, update as needed, and when they die download them into a new body. The new body need not be a willing person. b. Say there's some reason that just can't work. I can't see why but,it's there. OK, they're utterly revolutionized computer data storage. The ability to record the complete memory and personalty of a person must require giga-terrabytes of storage space, in something the size of a current external drive. What could that do for Hollywood alone in terms of streaming video and on-demand content? c. 'Brainstorm'. alter the setup so a person can view AND FEEL memories and events for a fee without losing their self. Be a pornstar for a time. Experience a surgical operation from the POV of the surgeon. OR THE PATIENT. Might someone agree to be shot so that a recording could be made of the experience? *fffft* BILLIONS of Dollars right there for whatever SECRET GROUP runs the place. so, yeah, compared to what was aired, bah. (altho I note they did brush on the digital immortality concept in an episode.)

• Another overrated piece of Whedon garbage gets put out of of misery? Score one more for the good guys!

• &#64; Chelsea: Clearly, so was everyone else calling him out over his Whedon posts.

• Do you use the same picture for every Dollhouse article just to show Eliza Dushku topless? If so, I applaud your efforts.

• Well, I knew it was coming. I don't like it, but I expected it from day one. And, I'm gonna take the unpopular view here and posit that Dollhouse was an okay show with flashes of brilliance. I can see some of the hate (this is not a show for everyone) but I honestly thought it had some great moments. There's no denying that it was wildly uneven and suffered from Eliza Dushku as the lead (particularly with so many other great actors on the show), but it was original and when it was good, it was excellent. I'd even go so far as to suggest that a lot of Whedon fans didn't like it because it's not much like Buffy or Firefly (there are similarities of course, but I would argue it was never the next Firefly). Never cared enough to watch that Terminator Sarah Connor whatever thing, and stopped caring about Fringe after the first couple episodes, but I found the parts of Dollhouse that worked to be awesome. Just my two nerd girl cents.

• I was shocked when it got a second season at all...perhaps it's for the best. If only Fox would stop buying up these series's which they're clearly not equipped to handle properly or that are never going to get them the ratings they want.

• this does not surprise me for figured since day one sooner or later fox would pull the plug on doll house as for why Weadon keeps letting fox have his shows knowing that they will just wind up pulling the plug. one would think with doll house going bye bye he would finaly say that is it and not ever give fox another show. but he keeps coming back to fox like a puppy dog.

• and people still blame fox. Maybe if whedon made shows that were, hmm i don't know GOOD then this wouldn't keep happening.

• Yeah, jezus; Whedon is like a battered woman who keeps coming back for more.

• Oh, well. It was an Ok Show but not realy good. I haven't seen one episode of the second Season even tough i heard alot of positive things. What realy sticks out to me is that like in no other show i can think of i was way more interessted in the side characters than the Main character. And unlike most people not even because of the acting (witch is pretty bad on Eliza's part) but just because the everything else was way more compelling.

• Keep putting your faith in fox nerds....Fringe is next...I watch nothing on Fox but the animation comedies, because only Anti-Jesus would cancel those...

• Fox is shit anyways. Nobody should have really cared in the first place after the show was put on Fridays, the death slot. Fox WANTED to kill it, even if you claim otherwise, or if not, the Fox people are incredibly retarded monkeys, which they are anyway.

• Well, this doesn't ruin my day (because, yeah, this was destined to happen), but it doesn't mean I have to like it. I hope Joss tries to take the show to another network, like Sci-Fi or ABC-- heck, it might even work on USA or FX (except that FX is owned by Fox). I still contend that if Firefly had originally aired on Sci-Fi (or, been picked up by Sci-Fi after Fox canceled it), then the show would have lasted at least three seasons. C'est la vie. I think the real lesson here-- and something people should have learned somewhere around episode 8 of 30 in Lost season 2-- is to shit or get off the pot: Tell your damn story, writers. Layers and sub-plots and character development are all great, and necessary, but tell the story you're trying to tell, don't pussyfoot around. This was the only thing wrong with Dollhouse-- Joss took an episodic idea and tried to make it serialized. If he'd just done one or the other (my vote would be on the latter, because the "monster of the week" formula was the worst part of this show), then Dollhouse might have succeeded. Honestly, the directions Joss and the writers were taking, the ones revealed in the Alpha episodes and Epitaph One, could have been (could still be) breathtaking in their scope and terrifying in their implications. It would make my year if, in some capacity (another network? comic books?!), Dollhouse continues.

• "Yeah, because Nate Fillion's going to leave a successful ABC series for a show that'll be borderline on SyFy. Where do people think up this shit?" I just reports dem bullshit rumors, I don't makes em up.

• Fillion can do both! Maybe. Be cool though.

• "Seriously, man. Give Showtime or HBO a call." What makes you think that they even take his calls? HBO's too busy trying to get Matt Weiner to come back to the fold to bother with a writer whose last two shows have been flops. On the Friday night thing: remember that X-Files started on Fridays. Fox knew what night to put on a show that's targeted at shut-in geeks back then, and the theory still works. "the end of Dollhouse means Firefly rights have been released to Whedon. Therefore new Firefly. " Yeah, because Nate Fillion's going to leave a successful ABC series for a show that'll be borderline on SyFy. Where do people think up this shit?

• &#64;all of you retards who are asking "durrr I thought this was supposed to be no-Joss-week durrr," ROB WAS BEING SARCASTIC. Try reading more than the headline next time, idiots. I would kill to see a Whedon show on HBO or Showtime. Or hell, even AMC. But yeah, not Dollhouse. I don't hate it, but I don't love it either. It's enjoyable mostly when they focus on the characters that aren't Echo. I'm sorry, but Eliza Dushku doesn't have the talent to carry a show. It was a mistake, and now Joss should move on to better things. That said, if Fox does air the rest of the season (they need to fucking air it), I'll be watching it.

• &#64;RunnerX13 Tell me about it! I remember being really sad on one episode of terminator, when I realized that it was going somewhere, but that the episodes were just too filler heavy. It was obvious that would get the show canceled. As in anybody watching should have been able to see the writing on the wall. I just wondered what kind of yesmen were the writers surrounded by that nobody had just flat out told them what kind of mistake they were making.

• I don't think it's fair to blame FOX here; I'm a huge Whedon fan, but I found Dollhouse to be unwatchable. And I was big of a Sarah Connor Chronicles too, but that show's cancelation is solely on the hands of the writers, who for some reason stretched out 11 episodes worth of stories into 22 shows.

• What happened to the moratorium on Joss Whedon!?

• FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU-

• This just in: Sky is blue , water is wet, and Fox cancels a Whedon show before its time.

• I don't think anyone should have seen this as even a small surprise. The show really wasn't very good. I'm a Whedon fan, definitely, and even I think he dropped the ball pretty hard here on this one. FOX canceling this was just obvious.

• This day in uncorroborated rumors - the end of Dollhouse means Firefly rights have been released to Whedon. Therefore new Firefly. Uncorroborated rumor. The key word is bullshit.

• I propose a corollary to Godwin's law just for Joss Wheedon. First person to mention Firefly in thread about Wheedon as an excuse for the fact the best thing he's done in the latter half of the decade is Dr. Horrible's Sing a Long loses the thread. Yes, Firefly was awesome. It's cancellation is the premier example of a network being tasteless jerkoffs. It's a crying shame. That doesn't change the fact that Dollhouse sucked. Even the people who watch it kinda admit it sucks. It just sucked. Dollhouse blowing chunks as nothing to do with Firefly or Fox or anything. Terrible show got canceled. This is not a tragedy.

• I think the biggest issue is the night they aired it on. You'd think Fox would have learned from Drive, Firefly, Space: Above & Beyond, etc having all been on Friday nights. Nobody watches Fox on Friday nights. Those nights have always been dominated by shows that people watch together as families. It's why shows like Monk and Stargate: SG-1 have lasted so long. Sure, there's a few episodes that might be a bit too...adult to watch with your kids. But they've all had something for everyone in the family. That's my theory at least, and I'm sticking with it!

• The show would have been better if it didnt have eliza dushku starring in it. The 10 year old girl on the post-apocalypse episode that played echo was more convincing actress. Why they picked someone who cant act to play a role that entails "acting" as a different person each episode is what confuses me.

• Yah why does Whedon keep bothering with these goof? Oh, Firefly where art thou?

• The only reason Fox picked it up for a second season is because they've learned their lesson from Firefly, Futurama, etc. Too bad they extended that mercy to such a crappy show. They probably won't try it again.

• I never watched. Honestly. Never a single episode. I simply refused to invest emotionally in another Joss Whedon show on Fox. We all knew this was going to happen the day it was announced, didn't we? It could have been the greatest show ever (and I heard it CERTAINLY was not) but there was always going to be a certain percentage of us (probably hardcore browncoats) who just refused to watch for fear of getting involved in another Firefly-like debacle.

• I was a Dollhouse fan... but even I couldn't be bothered to commit an hour a week to that show anymore. It just never went anywhere. I think more hour-long dramas need to do what Dexter does, one short 10-episode season that is really good, as opposed to drawing out a full season. (Even though Dollhouse is only 13 episodes... maybe they should have made a TV movie instead.)

• I thought this was the no-John-WHedon week.

• I hate to say it, but I'm almost glad. The main plot, the client of the night thing, was just dull. The unaired episode, now that was actually interesting. And I think a lot of us who had given up on the show were lured back in by fans telling us about it. So we saw it, and assumed that they'd actually move the plot away from the tired formula of the first season. Because looking back, with alpha, they seemed to be doing that. But season 2 has just been everything I disliked about the start of season 1, just with the actual interesting B story a tiny bit more prominent.

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