• I haven't read any of these except "Secret Wars" and "Infinity Gauntlet", and they were both crap. Neither made much sense, and were really obvious lame attempts to sell comics. "Secret Wars 2" being even worse, and the same with the "Infinity..." sequels. Why would the Beyonder have Galactus as an "earth villain"? Why are weaklings like Wolverine and Nightcrawler and Klaw brought along? Also, how can the Infinity Gauntlet be stronger than Eternity? 99% of the cross-over events I've read are crap to be honest. I hate them, not least because they FORCE you to buy them when they intrude upon your read title.

• I care about Cho and Herc, tooooo! Seriously, they are a great pair and really fun read. Thank you public library for making me able to understand the majority of this article/Commentary. Houston Public Library has graphic novels!

• Well, I would contend that the effect is still lasting as the characters are all still around and are in the Savage Land now.

• Holy cow. That was a bit uncalled for as a response. Please link me to this article. I genuinely would like to read it!

• apologies to the writer, but this is a pretty shabby list man. its only about 10 years worth of story arcs. you gotta go back man....WAAAAAAYYYY back. Emerald twilight dude, changed our thoughts of Hal forever. then his rebirth was a crazy arc too. How about Death of Superman. kids were wearing black arm bands in school with the supes logo on it to commemorate a fallen hero. Batman Death in the family!!.....Knightfall.. and this is just DC...Marvel was pushing the limits way before DC god man you gotta do your research.

• No Civil War? That affected much in the Marvel world. Death of Captain America? Secret Invasion? Dark Reign? WWH? All linked through the Civil War.

• The Morlock Massacre. It started the epic inter-title crossover event more than even Secret Wars I & II, which were really just miniseries with tie-ins. Introduced Sinister. Started the Wolverine/Sabertooth storyline. Changed Angel. Eventually resulted in Excalibur. So on.

• Someones a DC fan here!...not one X-men storyline??? AOA should have been on here. This list is an EPIC FAIL!!!

• how the hell is darkest day not up there? it was a fairly large crossover constantly referenced AND batman was dead for christsakes that is the definitive crossover and spanned twelve issue and a new series (brightest day).

• WWH was an example of a great idea, horribly executed. Also, No Dark Pheonix saga or Fall of the Mutants or God Loves, man kills? And finally, I thik its a bit early for One More Day to be on the list. I'm still waiting for the whole "no marriage" thing to be ret-conned. It always seems just around the corner.

• These two were definitely lame "crossover" story lines but what about Evolutionary War and Atlantis Attacks?? Both of those seemed to go on forever back in the day.

• The Phoenix Saga should have been on this list. At the time, it was incredible, then Marvel ruined it with retcon after retcon. From Madelyn Prior being a clone to the numerous deaths and revivals of Jean Grey. However the series brought the Shiar Empire into more light. The phoenix force is still possessing folks to this day, so it had a lasting affect on the stories that came after.

• Fuck Wolverine Origin in the ear. Bone claws were stupid when Magneto ripped the adamantium out of Wolverine in the 90's and they always will be.

• BALLS. I just entered this week's contest on the wrong page. Sorry bout that. My stupid ass forgot how tabs worked. Copy/paste to the rescue!

• Years ago for Halloween when I worked at the dreaded Kmart, a fellow friend in the 501st let me wear his Stormtrooper armor. I worked in photo, so I figured I could work properly within the restraints of the armor. Unfortunately, business was slower than normal that day & I was sent to the floor to help stock. The first thing I opened went on a bottom shelf. I know a lot of you probably aren't familiar with how limited the mobility is in those suits. It doesn't help when the suit is slightly big for you. So, of course, I couldn't bend over or sit, making it physically impossible to stock anything sitting below my waist. This became a spectacle & customers stopped & watched as I angrily tried to reach a shelf where this goddamn shampoo went. It peaked when a man came over & put it on the shelf for me. Always nice when you get customers to do your job for you.

• Changed the Hulk, yes. Lasting effect on the Marvel U, not so much. You're right about Planet Hulk being a really good read though. It's a shame they killed it so quickly.

• Fair enough, I too respect your opinion. We'll just agree to disagree. Good talk.

• Terrible list. Why? Because two things have to happen for a comic event to matter: 1. We have to know what the hell happened. And that certainly wasn't the case with Final Crisis. 2. The impact should be lasting. Like the latest FF death, there are items on this list that were made TO BE undone. This list should include more items that changed the way comics were made. Swamp Thing? Animal Man breaking the 4th wall? Speedy shooting up? Or for God's sake, Batman: Year One! These things changed the shape of comics forever, but this list overshadows them by just looking to crossover events? Shame!

• Let me start by saying that I appreciate your opinion, even if I don't necessarily agree with it. I haven't read the Incredible Hercules, but I'll certainly check them out. This list was supposed to be objective and more based on facts then purely based on subjective opinions. As with any list, people will take the ball and run with it and the headline "Events That Actually Mattered" will take on different connotations. For some an event has to have influenced a lasting change for it to have "mattered". For me (and probably the rest of the Civil War supporters), the fact that this event influenced years of storyline is enough. Agree to disagree? Or do we have to enter Battle World and duke it out?

• I think World War Hulk is also notable (though seriously underplayed) for being one of the few times Banner and Hulk have been in equal control, with both of them being pissed off. Throughout the book the heroes keep believing that Hulk is out of control. They can save everyone as long as they can bring Banner back. They don't realize until near the end that Banner hates the shit out of them too.

• Simply, 'cause they suck...

• Sorry Non-Thriller, I read them and they sucked shit through nuclear-powered straws. At one point I read an article that pointed out almost 50 story plot points in total discontinuity with each other. So, the pity party is still yours, baby boy...

• All three crisis crossovers, and not "Fall of the Mutants" or "Civil War"? I don't buy it.

• I do. I care about Amadeus Chow and Incredible Hercules was one of the most consistent titles for Marvel. You should read up on it, it may change your attitude about Chow and Herc. As for Civil War, I won't deny that it had lasting effects for about 4 years but they didn't last. Unlike NML or some of the other events on this list, none of the Marvel heroes seem to recall or acknowledge that Civil War took place. And you know why? Because Fraction made Stark erase the last past years worth of memory effectively removing one of the main players from the series. As good as Fraction's Iron Man run has be, the whole Stark: Dissassembled arc left a bad taste in my mouth. What Marvel effectively did by removing Stark's memory was take all culpability from the character and more or less return him to his cocky borderline arrogant persona. All the guilt and regret he had for Cap's apparent death and the SHRA getting out of hand was washed away. I was so looking forward to the Stark/Cap reunion and how Stark would most likely be overwhelmed by joy after blaming himself for what happened to Cap in the aftermath of CW. Marvel robbed me of that, robbed all of us of that. The Stark mindwipe and Spudey's deal with the devil effectively destroyed any lasting effect from Civil War. If the list was for That actually mattered within five years of it's end, Civil War would have made the list. As is, no it didn't matter significantly. I would argue that Batman: Battle for the Cowl was more significant based on the drastic changes in the Bat-books.

• I agree, it would have been great to see some more lasting effects from Civil War, like Peter Parker having to live with his decision to reveal his identity, or the development of the Thor clone, Ragnarok, into more than just some douche (same for Penance). That said, you can't discount the fact that the actual "event" has had an impact on Marvel's 616 continuity for the past 4+ years. Disassembled, House of M, Decimation, Civil War, World War Hulk, Messiah Complex, Secret Invasion, Dark Reign, and Seige all flow into each other. I wouldn't argue that ALL of these deserve to be in the top ten, but Civil War is the lynchpin that holds them all together. Secret Wars is a glorified "What If" that feels like a Star Trek episode. Sure, it introduced The Beyonder, but how many good Beyonder arcs have there been? Batman "No Man's Land" doesn't have that big of an effect to be a top 10. Spider-man "One More Day" will get retconned, for sure. If you don't think he's going to get back with MJ, you're dreaming. I haven't read anything with Crisis in the titles, because I don't care about other universes or DC trying to clean up their big mess. And finally, World War Hulk was important because it introduced Amadeus Cho as a great character and created Incredible Hercules?Cho has done what, exactly? And how many people give a shit about Hercules? This is some pretty thin reasoning.

• World War Hulk killed the Heroes For Hire reboot. :-( Uh, the one before the current one, that is.

• World War Hulk has no business being on this list. The only list WWH should be on is "great examples of why the general public doesn't take comics seriously". A brief list of the cringe-worthy cliches that make up the entirety of WWH: 1. Super Team Introductions with Action Poses. Every issue wasted at least 1/3 of its pages on this. 2. Preposterous, unbelievable fights. So, the Hulk just punched Tony Stark through a building, and while he's still breaking through walls, he's spouting lines of dialogue like "The Hulk just punched me through a wall!" Is it 1960 again and nobody told me? 3. The Total Evacuation of New York - which takes all of maybe 20 minutes in WWH, and is necessary because of.... 4. The Total Destruction of New York - which, even though the city is flattened, is never referenced again in any way. 5. Pointless fights that exist only because some two-bit hack thinks it would be hawt to watch. 6. Dialogue? Overwrought and juvenile. 7. Can't think of any dialogue? Have somebody punch somebody else, and fill the panel with the word "BOOM" written in huge bubble letters. Overall, the whole thing reads like Marvel fanfic written by a 13-year-old with ADD. It is an excellent of example of what is wrong with comics today. Oh, and one last thing: Amadeus Cho is a joke of a character who would have fit reasonably well into an "Ultimate" book, but sticks out like a sore thumb in everything Marvel does with him.

• I think you'd almost be wasting your time reading World War Hulk without having read the Planet Hulk saga. It is kind of all one long story. And when you're done, you get to move onto Incredible Hercules, because that really was a fun book.

• Not only that, but it changed the power structure of the Marvel Universe into a more interesting place for the last 4 years. Because of the events of the registration act and the Initiative that formed as a result of Civil War, The Government became much more active in the super-powers world. Eventually dissolving S.H.I.E.L.D, and now giving Steve Rogers Nick Fury's old job as top cop. Think of all the series and company wide storylines that couldn't have happened (or wouldn't have played out in nearly the same way) without the events of Civil War. The Initiative, World War Hulk, Secret Invasion, Dark Reign, Siege, the Heroic Age. Both the Thunderbolts and New Avengers changed into fundementally different books. Also, on the DC side. The entire 'War of Light' events and miniseries might deserve an honorable mention. Or perhaps the top slot. Starting with Rebirth, moving onto the Sinestro Corps war, then the issues introducing the other various rainbow corps, bringing it all together for Blackest Night and now Brightest Day. They've certainly had reprecussions for the rest of the DC Universe then, outside of just the Green Lantern books. And furthermore, they are also really good. Important AND well-done events are a rarity, often event books have a fascinating core concept but quickly break down into giant super-brawls.

• Wow, yeah for Death of Superman. Sure the primary incidents (like, to give one example, the death of someone) have been undone and even quickly undone (like, to give one example, the death of someone). But a significantly large amount of secondary things from that event kept on being relevant. The most important of which would be the death of someone else, namely Green Lantern's Coast City (and wife), driving Hal Jordan insane, and leading to numerous subsequent Events with repercussions still ringing today.

• This. I'm not old enough to have experienced all the silver age stuff like Ralph and Sue's relationship sot I did get a kick out of IC. Don't get me wrong, I am enough of a comic book nerd to understand that Sue was a harmless character that was undeserving of the vicious historical makeover Metzger gave her but it was still a decent story to me that paved the way for the awesome Ralph Dibny story in 52. Which a) hasn't been retconned and b) made Doctor Light less of a one dimensional character even if it was by making him a rapist.

• "Secret Crisis: Brand New House of Infinite M's"

• The worst part is that they stole Penance's name for that retarded character... "Hollow"?...hell no.

• Identity Crisis was a favorite of mine. The gorgeous artwork didn't hurt. It explained the Hawkman/Green Arrow feud in a way that made sense (who gets in a fistfight based only on political leanings?) killed Jack Drake, setting up Tim to be adopted by Bruce, reinvented the Calculator in a whole new way, tried to introduce a new Atom and Firestorm by getting the old ones offstage, and influenced Secret Six, 52, the Batman titles and Green Arrow, and made Dr. Light formidable again. Not to mention the Eclipso/Spectre/Outsiders influences.

• All I have to say is: Why the Identity Crisis hate? That, to this day, is one of the best DC stories ever written. I guess people dont like their cape and tights heroes acting like actual human beings. Oh wait, people love Watchmen, so then...

• Infinity Gauntlet was my personal fav of the list. I have re-read that many times. One more day...I quit readin comics shortly after, not for that reason though, so don't konw how that panned out. Driving 45 minutes for comics was out of the question after trying it for a year. I think the overwhelming theme is that comics, while we think of it as art, is a business really, not art. Artists work there, but there is a CEO telling them what to do, and at the end of the day, it is about spending 1 dollar, and making 2....... 4 dollars for a comic book?? Is there anything else that has seen this rate of inflation aside from oil? Other products, milk, bread, movie ticket? This list makes me really, really miss reading comics every week. It also makes me really, really glad that I don't.

• I, too, was puzzled by the need for the disclaimer in the "Identity Crisis" entry. I thought that book was amazing.

• Actually, I think you have something here. The only way superhero comics have changed in any lasting/profound sense is in terms of style of both writing and art. Works like Watchmen and Sin City really DID have a lasting impact on comics in those terms!

• As much of a DC fan as I am, I would give the number one spot to Contest of Champions. It was the first crossover through all books that were not just stories in each monthly book. Crisis was world changing, it should be number two DC's Super Powers was not so much of a crossover as a toy sales gimmick And why no Blackest Night? Great story Secret Wars? Well, it still stands as the most exclamation point heavy comic ever

• " But you know what else it resulted in? The best Spider-Man comics in like 25 years" ... FUCK... YOU... Matt.

• This list is for major story events that various books were leading up to and often dragged books from other sections into them. Watchmen and Kingdom Come were standalone books that, while most excellent, didn't affect the rest of the DC universe story-wise (at least directly).

• Did you not see House of M. M stands for Magnus, or Magneto. If that ain't X-Men I don't know what is?

• i know a few of these but it certainly spells the end for me of ever picking up any comic again.

• Crisis On Infinite Earths. *nods* The rest? Overpriced bullshit. ... Then again, I am old and crotchety.

• There's one series that trumps almost everyone of these entries and that's Legends. DC's mid-80's series reintroduced Captain Marvel, Suicide Squad, and led to a revamped Justice League with Batman and Guy Gardner. It has been forgotten, never reprinted to my knowledge, but it led to a creative rebirth for the DC universe. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legends_(comics)

• Mutant Masacare, certainly. Why is final crisis on thelist higher than the original, which made all the sequels? also..where the bleep are watchmen and kingdon come?? their effect on comcis writing entirely was long lasting and profound.

• All Civil War ushered in was Norman Osborn's short reign of SHIELD and the Avengers. Now Marvel's pretending none of it happened overall with snore-worthy Heroic Age. I'd take Civil War or Dark Avengers any day over the current crap with Shadowlands or whatever else is going on at the moment. It's sad when the teenager teams are the most interesting in the Marvel universe.

• Steve Rogers is dead?! I just saw him the other day! Oh man, my life is irrevocably changed. I'll never be able to pick up another issue of Captain America without think of poor dead...hey, wait a minute.

• YEAH! I liked Identity Crisis too! Created interesting changes for some characters, like with Tim Drake for instance.

• And "Contest Of Champions" preceded them all.

• Penance is such shit. I actually was laughing my ass off and thinking it would all turn out to be a massive joke/commentary on emo culture or something. I liked it when Deadpool showed Squirrel Girl what happened to her beloved Speedball, and she was so horrified, and went to him and scolded him till he came to his senses and became Speedball again. :)

• Yup. What everyone else has said: Civil War results in a complete return to the stuatus quo. Superhero comics are trapped in this kind of recursive storytelling because companies want to get new readers interested and hire new writers for the same ongoing series. It's actually kinda sad, and something I note with disappointment when going from a wonderfully written series like Fables to a big superhero event like Civil War. At the end of the story, nothing that happened really mattered, and so much of the story was unnecessary filler.

• FUCK THAT NOISE. WHERE IS THE ANNIHILATION ARC?

• I pity you. You've missed out on a lot of excellent comics.

• super powers was DC's secret wars and it sucked hard. the mutant massacre altered the xmen line-up for years & introduced a new level of intensity that never changed. also it had one of Thor's greatest scenes.

• 1) Tony Stark's fall was great but the endgame was total shit. Really? Make him forget everything he's done in the last few years? I'm sorry, that's bullshit. 2) They SHRA is gone. The 50 State Initiative is what is still in effect, and just barely at that. 3)The rise of Norman Osborn was just a huge joke. It did nothing but undo everything but House of M. It was just an excuse to bring the heroes together so that they could put Secret Invasion and Civil War behind them and make heroes get along again. 4) Penance or should I say Speedball now has done nothing outside of the short stint with the Thunderbolts aka a wasted character. 5)The Thor clone was a cheap gimmick to make Civil War seem more epic than it was. He died like a bitch (I believe during the siege of Asgard, I don't remember) plus I he later called himself Ragnarok which was pretty lame. Don't get me wrong, I loved Civil War when it came out. Now it just seems like another example of Marvel's inability to think ahead of their stories so that each event isn't almost completely retconned within a year.

• *I'm an admitted DC fan and have barely read anything Marvel since Transformers #80. But, being a good nerd, this will not prevent me from making the following sweeping generalization....* Remember, the list is events that mattered, not the best. That said, despite a number of flaws, Crisis on Infinite Earths should be number one on both. It matters most because it undid, heavily modified, and/or changed the context of what came before it. I mean, EVERYTHING. In itself, it is the division of eras in DC comics...whenever you're talking DC, you have to clarify whether it's pre- or post-Crisis. None of the other series on this list can even touch this. Everything that followed it has to bear it in mind, from in-fiction story material and reference to real life writer and editor continuity considerations. Characterwise, the only ones to escape (mostly) unscathed was Batman (only due to the unmitigated fact that <i>he's the Batman</i>) and the Fourth World guys. Superman was totally rebooted, as was Wonder Woman (one of the better results of the Crisis, IMO). Batman, as mentioned earlier, was only changed inasmuch as Robin II's (Jason Todd) origin was concerned...Dick Grayson was still a known quantity as the first Robin, though he was still Nightwing. Flash II (Barry) died, so Flash III (Wally) stepped up, which makes no sense in light of the first two rebooting, as they have new histories whereas everybody remembers Barry...but not Supergirl. The Legion was for all intents and purposes defunct for fifteen years until they figured out a way to make it happen that wasn't crap. Not all this was good, nor did it always make good sense, but it mattered for both these reasons. Industry-wise, despite the previous arrival of Secret Wars, which was more of a side-story with little bearing on the rest of the universe, Crisis on Infinite Earths was the first continuity-wide, game-changing event for all the reasons mentioned...and so much of a success that both Marvel and DC have conducted new ones every summer since. Everything else is secondary. For accuracy's sake, the list should be "10 Major Comics Events That Actually Mattered...Aside From CoIE, Of Course." That said, while the other Crisis titles were not in the same league in amount of impact or quality, they were pretty impactful in their own right. Zero Hour, an attempt to "fix" some problems with CoIE, served to screw up the Justice Society and the Green Lantern Corps for nearly a decade until capable writers came down the line to fix them. Identity Crisis was important for the tone it set in the DCU and therefore a number of storylines for a few years. And it was a good story. Infinite Crisis set up the return of the multiverse (destroyed in CoIE), and Final Crisis was just a clustermess for a number of reasons. As for non-Crisis stuff, Death of Superman introduced a number of new characters (such as Cyborg Superman and the non Kal-El Superboy) and contributed heavily to the near destruction of the comics industry. THAT'S a pretty momentous event, but not for the best of reasons... Bloodlines abjectly sucked, but gave us Hitman. Pain mixed with pleasure, that. DC One Million was a good story that gave us a sweeping time-travel tale, the impetus for the great All-Star Superman series, and Hitman #1,000,000, one of the top individual comic issues ever. You can disagree if you like being wrong. Sinestro War was a good series but was overshadowed by the crap going on simultaneously. The only real change it's affected is the nature of the GLC, though. And there were the lesser ones, like Legends, Millenium, War of the Gods, Blackest Night, Final Night, blah blah blah. And of course, Countdown, doing its best to destroy any credibility the art form may have ever engendered.

• I don't care if those comics are "so great" I don't give a fuck I'm not paying money for that stuff because it's bullshit what the fuck fuck FUUUU

• GUESS WHAT IM REFERRING TO WHEN I SAID THAT

• I don't think even Matt himself really agrees with his inclusion of World War Hulk, based on his write-up of it (speaking of which, a new Hercules series, also written by Pak, starts next month, so maybe that'll make him happy). The only other event that I can think of to replace it that had a lasting impact is Secret Invasion. Killed off Wasp, and led directly into Norman Osborn's year-plus long Dark Reign.

• The Ultimates Thanks to this series, Marvel heroes became dickier to the point of Civil War and The Illuminati....even though the Ultimates were in a completely different Universe. The Ultimates changed the way the regular Marvel Universe was percieved forever. Dark Night Returns How can a "future time" series change a character forever? Look no further than this series. Ask anyone about Batman pre-DNR and you'll get an almost unanimous "Huh?" The regular Batman comic was headed towards the dumps before this series came out. Afterwards.....well you know.

• Y'know I've often question the taste of the writers here at TR, what with the constant jockin of movies that look like utter crap and writing off/ripping apart ones that don't look all that bad and whatnot, but if you call the post One More Day issues of Spiderman "The best Spider-Man comics in like 25 years" you're out of you freakin mind. Most of the storylines since then have either been ridiculously lazy or just plain nonsensical. Its almost like Spiderman has become Marvel's version of DC's silver age revival (gone horribly wrong) that no one asked for in the first place.

• Planet Hulk and World War Hulk was great. It actually got me reading something other than Deadpool again.

• I'm actually relieved Civil War didn't make the list. Almost everything that happened in that book has been undone. Not only undone, but undone in an extremely shitty way. - Spider-Man revealing his secret identity: Made a deal with the devil to make everyone forget it. - Super Human Registration Act: Gone with the Tony Stark who called for it. (if they were gonna make him forget everything, should have made him a Skrull.) - The tragedy at Stamford: All but forgotten. - Thor clone: truly forgettable death. - Superheroes at each other's throats: Friends again like nothing happened. - (although not technically within Civil War) Cap gets killed: Back but no longer Cap (that one is actually okay) All in all, Civil War could not have happened and we would still be in the exact same position in regards to the Marvel Universe.

• I have to disagree with Mr. Wilson's claim that these have been some of the greatest Spider-Man stories in the last 25 years. Only the Rhino arc, the Gauntlet arc, and parts of the American Son and Spider Slayer arcs have been above average. The rest are just meh.

• I don't even find the stuff Rob writes too stellar either...

• Thank God the worthless Civil War bullshit is not on this list. Some common sense at last. Pretty much, it ruined Marvel Comics for me and I have bought maybe 5 issues since then. I have fanboys who don't remember anything before the 90s tell me it's the most important event they know. I pity them...

• Agreed. Though I disagree with some of your choices, I thought that it was a great read and caused discussion. Don't mind the jerks who exist to come here to mock anything that Rob does not write.

• Crisis changed DC in very real ways. EVERY DC book started from scratch. it changed the contiuity that had existed for 50 years. NO other book can say that.

• Identity Crisis was a well written, wonderfully thought out book. was I angry at Sues death? sure, but any comic that can cause you to have that level of emotion towards a fictional character is doing its job. to make you FEEL>

• Good work, Matt! Not a huge comics fan, but entertaining list nonetheless. And don't mind the haters: Folks who can't grasp the concept that, by definition, OPINIONS can't be PROVEN are an occupational hazard.^_~

• there were some excellent moments in the Clone Saga.

• Thanks Matt, for reminding everyone how divisive comic book opinions can be. Also, thank you for reminding me how shitty these lists can be from time to time. You know, opinions are great when they are backed up by actual arguments. If you're going to do a list on the 10 comics events that mattered, maybe next time you should also back up your sentences with actual facts rather than your own "Uhhhh, yeah, this sucked but it was important so there" attitude. You're entitled to your opinions, and you're lucky that you have a place to extoll those opinions, but for the love of all that is holy and good, BACK THEM UP WITH ACTUAL FUCKING REASONS! I'm going to challenge you to prove your work. If you read this, tell me WHY it is that Identity Crisis was not good. Explain that to me. Also, explain how Final Crisis, a book that came out two years ago and was such a clusterfuck of dense and obtuse Grant Morrisonery, is more important to comics continuity than Crisis on Infinite Earths, The Mutant Massacre or Civil War, an event that has shaped the Marvel U. for over 4 years? Seriously, did you wake up this morning and write this list in the time it took to brew your coffee?

• I'm not usually one to complain about things being left out of subjective lists.. but I'm shocked that none of the recent green lantern stuff is there... that's had some lasting repercussions that I really don't see going away ever.

• Great List. I don't think Identity Crisis should be on the list, that "dark tone" has been at DC since Dark Knight Returns. Kyle's girlfriend in a fridge, Black Canary getting raped and having her throat slashed, Joker killing Robin, the Mist picking off heroes one by one, Hal Jordan going crazy and killing the GL Corps, Batman being a crazy sociopath, etc. If anything, the personality of the heroes are more upbeat. Regarding Final Crisis, I feel bad for Grant Morrison, if not for DC doing that retarded Countdown mini-series (hey, there's an idea for a list, the ten dumbest things a comic publisher ever did, I'm pretty sure Countdown would be #2), I believe Final Crisis would have been a masterpiece. Mary Marvel showing up evil, was supposed to be a shocking moment that showed how hopeless the heroes really were, instead the worst comic book series ever published (WCBSEP) ruined that, Orion being dead was another thing ruined by WCBSEP. Didio took Morrison's ideas of a multiverse, death of the New Gods, and fall of Mary Marvel (stuff that was supposed to happen in the book) and handed them off to other writers. Those writers, having nothing other then "Orion dies, Mary Marvel turns evil, etc." had to fill in the blanks. Morrison then had to keep doing endless rewrites, which caused serious art delays. And, to top it all off, Didio does a shitload of mini-series, which caused Morrison to do more rewrites. Have I mentioned that Countdown was the absolute worst comic series/idea that ever happened? I hope they do a Director's Cut, Absolute Verison of Final Crisis.

• As much as Marvel loves Secret. Who knows, now that Levitz is gone, they might one day to Secret Crisis.

• TYPO! Left out the word "odd" at the beginning of the post! Woops!

• OT: Your screen name rocks!!!

• That's --I think I was about 8 or 9 when my older brother (a comics fanatic who leaned toward DC) explained both Crisis and Secret Wars to me: I never liked reading comics much--but he loved to talk about them, and I distinctly remember asking him something along the lines of: "Aren't these both kinda the same thing?" I don't quite remember (or have blocked out) his response, but it may well be my very first experience with what would become known as "Nerd Rage"XD

• the Person who wrote this is obviously a bigger DC fan than he is Marvel lol. But Civil war should EASILY be top 5...

• Thank Crom I don't know comics well enough to write THAT!XD

• "Identity Crisis" or the time Dr. Light became "Dr. Rape"... Seriously since that Event this guy is just ALL about rape.

• Somehow I'm not surprised to see Amalgamation event didn't make it on here. There are throw backs to it once in awhile, it may not have been world shatteringly important the scheme of things except for the fact it created a middle-verse of DC and Marvel that if I remember right still does exist in canon somewhere. I mean it created the Goddamn Wolverine Batman, that's about as terrifying as Green Lantern Batman. How about Lobo the Duck? Half-man, half-duck, half-cyborg, all psychotic. Then there's Dr. Strangefate, Professor X merged with Doctor Strange and Doctor Fate. I think The Amalgamation Event is at least worth an honorable mention with facts like that presented.

• I think the inherent problem with a "Top Ten Major Comics Events that Actually Mattered" list is that there aren't ten major comics events that actually mattered. It seems like a major cop out to include incredibly recent events. Of course something has impact if there hasn't been enough time to retcon it back to normal. Time is always the truest test. You need at least five years (and probably at least ten) to pass any sort of judgment. The prominent return of major comics events happening on a constant basis was within the last 5-10 years which is why this is generally just a bad list topic. Now, I like to offer constructive criticism so I'll throw out the Clone Saga. Why? Because it brought Norman Osborn back and he has been a major player influencing all of these major events since his return.

• Civil War should have DEFINITELY made the list for these (and many more) reasons: 1. Elevated Tony Stark to a position of power, where we begin to see him fall apart. 2. The Superhero Registration Act is something that has not gone away. It launched the Avengers Initiative, as well as split up the Avengers into different teams (that are still in tact). 3. Norman Osborn was appointed director of the Thunderbolts team, which carried him into a huge roll in Secret Invasion, Dark Reign and Seige. 4. Launched Penance (say what you will about Amadeus Cho, he's no better than Penance's character). 5. Tony Stark and Reed Richards created a THOR clone, which later earned Stark a beating. Heroes were fighting other heroes, villains were fighting as heros, and some heroes were considered villains. This type of backstabbing and distrust has changed the way everyone in the Marvel universe acts toward one another. Tony Stark lost a lot of allies/friends, Cap became a martyr, and Reed Richards became an asshole. This is what an event SHOULD be like. Also, this was a Marvel-wide crossover that effected just about every title.

• Right now in the Avengers, the Hood (Parker Robbins) is gathering the Infinity Gems in an attempt to replace the power he lost during the Siege of Asgard. I loved the Infinity Gauntlet, though a recent rereading of it had me feeling that it didn't hold up as well as I remembered it. Still good, though. Secret Wars was essentially created to promote a line of toys, but it was such a success that it spawned a sequel which, in order to deal with the continuity problems of doing a months-long story, saw the use of tie-in books, which would become par for the course of crossovers afterwards. It should be noted though that the book that really started the trend for big crossover minis in the Marvel U was Contest of Champions. Civil War really should have been on the list. While certain aspects of it have been "undone," as a whole it laid the groundwork for the current state of the Marvel U. The Superhuman Registration Act, Tony Stark becoming director of SHIELD, the Illuminati, Planet Hulk & World War Hulk, the Skrull Invasion, Norman Osborn replacing Stark, HAMMER, Siege, and now Steve Rogers running SHIELD (as well as three separate Avengers teams). Like them all or not, starting with Avengers Dis-Assembled, Marvel has put together an impressive string of interconnected stories. But it was the events of the Civil War which really set up what is now pretty much the entirety of the current Marvel U. For that same reason Crisis on Infinite Earths should maybe have been #1 on the list. Yes, the multiverse has been restored and Barry Allen brought back to life, but it was still basically a reboot of the entire DCU and everything today still plays off it. It addressed the great problem in comics of continuity and the passage of time. If there's any flaw to it it's that it happened so long ago that DC really needs to do it again (a problem glaringly exposed in the current DC Universe: Legacies miniseries).

• The original purpose of CoIE was to clean up the mess of some 40+ years of writing. And Secret Wars? Even on the list?

• I gotta second ouse of M for giving Wovlerine his memories back and finally building off of Wolverine: Origin

• I would agree with Wolverine: Origin for sure! That totally redefined his character. The others I don't necessarily agree with but can't really argue against.

• It's fun to read the comments with all the people who passively read comics or rage about comics for no reason. While the Infinity Gauntlet series is great and old school and such they really should have gone with Annihilation. That completely changed the cosmic Marvel landscape and set the stage for years of awesome story telling.

• 1. AoA 2. Thor Vs Celestial s to revive ODIN back 3. Clone Saga 4. Onslaught or Phoenix Saga 5. Wolverine ORIGIN 6. New Avengers ( breakout ) 7. Death of Superman 8. Death of Robin 9. Death of DC comics You get the Picture!

• I would have said that Planet Hulk (which was better written) should have been included instead but regardless both series permanently changed Hulk's status quo.

• Yeah, it actually made me appreciate the series for what all went on at the time, and how quickly things can change for a decent story into an awesome train wreck. The series itself may not be all that good, but this "documentary" is.

• Zero hour should be here. I agree because it's effect is still felt. Everything in GL has spun from this crossover . I would also have to defend One More Days inclusion. It was DRECK, but as stated in the article, it led to the awesome Brand New Day. Crisis on Infinite Earths is by far the most impactful comic crossover of all time. How many geek conversations include the terms pre Crisis and post Crisis?

• F@$& Civil War!!

• I love the life of Reilly! It is a very comprehensive looked at the run.

• I gotta give props to X-Tinction Agenda, in part because it tied together everything that had happened in X-books for a few years leading up to it. But DAMN how is Death in the Family not on this list??? They make references to Joker beating Robin to death with a wrench in, like, everything. I think it was even mentioned in the cartoon at one point.

• I do have to admit that Identity Crisis is what got me back into comics again. I think I have to put that trade as one of my top 3 of all time.

• Not to mention that Death of Superman let to the introduction of Steel and Superboy.

• Sure. Also Fatal Attractions, which lead to Wolverine having his adamantium skeleton ripped out by Magneto and for most of the 90s led to Bone Claws Wolverine (BOOOONE CLAAAAAWS' REEEADYYYY!!) and Vegetable Magneto...and the eventual Onslaught. I'd say Age of Apocalypse was better planned, conceived, and had longer impact (if nothing else for AoA "Cable" being in the 616 Universe and having his own comic for several years).

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