How i nthe name of Sweet Monkey Jesus can you put Bravestarr before Bebop?
That's just sheer lunacy sir!

James

Uhhhhhhhhhhhm Rob,that was Shane Gooseman. :-B
I think Galaxy Rangers has real potential as a movie
Here are my picks for the ideal actors to play the main characters : Vince Vaughn as Zachary Fox,relatively tall can play haunted characters. Next an obvious reference to the suave Lando Calrissian I think Terrence Howard would work well as Doc Hartford.
For Niko I'd say Christina Hendricks,hey you
know she'd look mighty nice in a white and blue spandex catsuit. ;] To round it all out James Franco As Shane Gooseman,he's played vaguely menacing mysterious characters before,so it could work.
I'd get Guillermo Del Toro or Peter Jackson to direct.
ZING! POW! An animated show to Movie with dark undertones and a Hair band soundtrack. I'd make sure those suckmasters Orci and Kurtzman have nothing to do with it at all.
The bodge they put on Transformers and Star Trek,wearies my nerdy soul. =[

So who decided Firefly/Serenity needed a no1 then built a list around it? ^___________^

We all knew it already.

I would argue that Star Wars (especially the first one) qualifies as a Space Western. Vast desert landscapes, burning homestead directly lifted from the Searchers, saloon full of scum and villainy, cynical but ultimately good hearted gunslinger with a loyal sidekick and who argues with the idealistic heroine because he is in love with her? What else would it need to qualify!

While I realize that it's not a Western, you should've included as an honorable mention Cowboy, the slow-witted weapons expert, from USA Night Flight's dub of Dynaman. (Yes, his name is "Cowboy".)

Snort: A big hat? ;)

Oh Wolfwood. Easily the best part of Trigun.

I used to watch Wild Wild West all the time...Loveless was the best villian he ever came up against.

*glances at his watch and starts the countdown until the Whedon-haters discover this thread and start ranting about how Firefly sucked and their love of child pornography and puppy-kicking*

Shh, Matt, let us not speak of them. They don't deserve our words.

Having never seen firefly and only parts of serenity I can't speak to it's genius ( or lack thereof), and I've enjoyed other whedon works so I'm definitely not a "whedon hater" ...but do you really have to deepthroat him so hard? There's a middle ground between being a hater and being so far up someones butt you can say hi to his tapeworms.

bebop should be higher, firefly better be your number 1 or i would have to hunt you down

Man that Hex was a good comic BITD, my Bro used to get it. Ripped more than a few ideas off from the pages of 2000Ad though.

wow... well, I imagine I don't have to say much, because the anime nerds will lay into you all on their own.

But yeah, cowboy bebop needed to be in your top 3, probably an extremely close tie between firefly and bebop, with trigun as a definite 3rd.

This list is nothing more than a frame around which to showcase a long sloppy Whedon BJ. I have no problem with Firefly or Whedon, but inventing a list just to put Firefly at #1? We've really got to be scraping the bottom of the "top 10" barrel now.

I just assume any time there's a list of good things, Firefly is number one. Any time there's a list of bad things, Firefly getting canceled is number one.

Top 10 Episodes of Batman the Animated Series? #1 is Shindig.

Worst Bear Attacks? #1 is Firefly getting canceled.

Dude! I just took some Galaxy Rangers DVDs back to the library. I missed the show first time around, although I remember it being on Mexico's Channel 5 back around 1987 or so.

Anyway, my 5-year-old daughter loved it, and I found myself going "Huh!" a lot at some of the crazy/cool concepts, interesting NPCs (read "secondary characters" if you're not a gamer) and all-around cleverness in the show. Good stuffs indeed.

I find your omission of Omega Doom disheartening.

How could you leave out Wild West C.O.W.-Boys of Moo Mesa?

I just watched the Bravestar intro and ruined a small piece of my childhood. I used to get up at 6am for that?

Bravestarr always felt like it was a rejected segment of Heavy Metal because there wasn't enough gratuitous nudity.

@bort: I would argue that Star Wars (Episode IV in particular) is actually more of a WW2-film.

I expected this, but... Cowboy Bebop and no Space Adventure Cobra ? Oh yeah, right... Cobra doesn't have "Cowboy" in its title, sorry.

nice list but can not belive cow boy bebop was not in the top five with trigun. and west world the only good thing of that film was that Yuls character proved hard to kill kept coming back after thinking he was dead. and would have been surprised if Roland the gunslinger had not gotten on the list.

Star Wars should have been number one. in a hundred years people will still know Star Wars. the rest will be forgotten. this list just dropped 50 IQ points. whose responsible this?? oh yeah, wheedonites. guys I'd love to see the world from your joss wheedon point of view but I just can't shove my head that far up my ass.

I grew up watching Wild Wild West and The Adventures of Brisco County Jr. every Saturday morning, right after reruns of the 1957 Zorro show. Thanks for adding them both to the list--glad not everyone's forgotten them.

@JH, I came here to say the exact same thing! Bebop was more than just anime redubbed--it had complex characters and an awesome soundtrack. Bravestar had....a talking horse. Francis the Talking Mule was better.

/See you space cowboy!

You can't rank Firefly higher than Cowboy Bebop because Firefly is just a rip off of Bebop.

Actually, if you read the book Star Wars: Magic and Myth I think its called. You see that the Star Wars movies are not westerns, in fact they are more Fantasy. They are the equivalent of the knights quest to vanquish evil from the land and save the princess.

Oh, c'mon - Bebop had no direct western imagery? Has everyone forgotten Cowboy Andy? For shame!

Okay, first of all, Star Wars isn't a space western... Much as it would be great to include it on the list there just really isn't many western elements in it...

Secondly, where in the f-bomb is Saber Rider and the Star Sherrifs!?!?!? For realsies!?

And even if Firefly IS a ripoff of Cowboy Bebop (which it isn't), Firefly is straight-up a western set in space. I think of Cowboy Bebop more of a musical/sci-fi extravaganza.

They used to show Wild Wild West Saturday mornings on TNT. Totally broke my heart when they stopped.

Glad to see The Wild Wild West in the Top 5. I AM old enough to remember and enjoy the original series, the best of the 007 rip-off shows; I especially appreciated the embedded video of Michael Dunn's Dr. Miguelito Loveless...a great character played by an equally outstanding actor.

@FinX: I think the show you're thinking "Firefly" is a ripoff of is "Outlaw Star". Or at least that's what all the anime nerds cried when "Firefly" premiered, likely the same anime nerds who cried that Disney's "Atlantis" was a riopoff of "Nadia".

/Anime nerd

@Bruce the Spruce: Try finding a copy of the Bravestarr movie. While it is still mainly a kids movie, it holds up surprisingly well, especially compared to the series.

Wild Wild West on tv was greatness! Skipped the movie, but I loved the show in reruns as a kid. I remember one episode in particular with some mad scientist who invents something that speeds people up, to the point where everyone around you appears to be practically statues. Neat concept, but H.G. Wells came up with it first, as I later learned, in his short story, "The New Accelerator".

Not to slam Whedon, but the last time I watched Firefly, there was this story he penned, where a Black bounty hunter takes out the crew, except for the techie girl, who he threatens to rape over the ship's intercom. I don't have any hang-up over misceganation, but seriously, a black guy threatening to rape a white woman? On prime time television? What in the name of Skywalkering Mandingo is this?

OrangeMonkey: That's exactly what I was thinking! How could a show where humanoid cattle characters ride actual horses and herd actual cattle NOT be an example of the western/sci-fi genre? Man, that show was odd.

I knew I wouldn't like this list when something as masterful as "Cowboy Bebop" barely cracked the top ten. Then Trigun plays second fiddle to that "Firefly" garbage? Ugh, Whedon sheep are vomit-inducing. If I wanted to watch too-cute-for-the-room, unrealistically clever dialogue among shallow characters I'd just watch "Gilmore Girls."

"Firefly" is just an ungodly merger of the Buffyverse with all of the BETTER sci-fi westerns that you either rated below that rip-off or not at all. It doesn't matter if it's "Angel," "Firefly" or "Astonishing X-Men." All of Joss' characters are just very minor tweaks of his Buffy sewage.

This list is a joke and only Whedon zombies are laughing.

Star Wars is closer to a samurai movie than a western.

Admittedly, there's a lot of crossover between the genres, but not in that case.

Wake me up when the Whedonite sheep stop generating top tens.

I'm sorry if this makes me unfit to post on this site, but I've never seen Cowboy Bebop. It's been mentioned a few times on this site and that clip was worth a Holy Fucklobsters, so I guess I'll try and track it down.

I also have seen Wild Wild West. So there.

Dude, that was so damn transparent. Enough with Firefly... We get it, you like Whedon. We get it, Firefly was a decent show. But come on, you lose all objectivity.

Star wars drew a number of inspirations from Seven Samurai, by Akira Kurasawa. The same movie and director who later influenced many of this countries best western movies, pointedly any of the sergeo leoni and clint eastwood stuff.

So you can say that the american western is quite literally an homage to the eastern samurai film... and thus, if you want to equate star wars to a samurai movie OR a western movie, it hardly matters because in many eyes the genres are one and the same with just cultural differences.

sorry, I suppose I should specify that when I say this country's westerns, I'm aware that even those are italian.

Some people sure do take their nerd-blog lists very seriously...

Trigun beat out Brisco AND Bebop?! you musta been high. Trigun sucked.

What about another show Firefly got 'inspiration' from (okay, downright stole from) Outlaw Star. Does that one count or is it not western enough?

Agree with Paolo. I used to watch Trigun on Adult Swim, trying to like it since a lot of my friends did. I thought it was inane.

guys I'd love to see the world from your joss wheedon point of view but I just can't shove my head that far up my ass.

@ Kevin. Sorry dude but Kurasawa borrowed from many to make his films, Yojimbo is based on an American book called "Red Harvest" by Dashiell Hammett which Leone's A fistful of dollars was also based. Ran is based on the Shakespeare play as well, so you can hardly say that "that the american western is quite literally an homage to the eastern samurai film..." you're quite wrong.

Here's the thing about Star Wars & samurai/western films: Star Wars is a hodge podge of all sorts of genres and storytelling devices, the lesser influence being westerns and the greatest being a mix between fantasy and samurai stories. Lucas put the fantasy tropes in a sci-fi setting, but he told a samurai tale. Specifically, he re-told Kurosawa's Hidden Fortress (NOT Seven Samurai).

Also, yes, Kurosawa influenced western (and Western) filmmakers, and, yes, most specifically Sergio Leone's Man With No Name trilogy. However, Kurosawa's samurai films were originally influenced by Hollywood's earlier westerns, the ones by Ford and Huston, etc. So, in a way, it is true that westerns/samurai films are pretty much the same genre with America and Japan mixing and sharing conventions and characters, the only marked differences being the clothes, the nationalities/languages of the performers, and the general time period. But, like Kevin (cap'd K) said, they are virtually the same thing.

Now, having said all of that, Star Wars is no more a western than Cowboy Bebop is a story about a samurai. Star Wars shouldn't be on this list, and Bebop shouldn't be on a sci-fi/samurai list. Though, (losing) arguments could be made for both.

In summation: Trigun, if must be on this list, should be down toward the bottom. And anyone who defends it by saying, "You have to watch ALL of it! The last disc is AMAZING!", should be slapped hard across the cheek. At least Whedon BJers (like myself) say that Dollhouse gets good half-way through and the first season ends awesomely, we're only talking about "waiting" like 6 episodes. Trigun fanatics expect people to wait 20 episodes before they start to enjoy the show? Balderdash, I say! And humbug, too.

@Duckula-
Objectivity? on a geek site? Geeks are pretty much the least objective people in existence. The very idea that we GEEK out on things means we are not being objective about it. It's his site, he likes Firefly- it will happen. It just so happens in this one he is 100% right (in my very non-objective opinion). Firefly was the perfect sci-fi western

How has no one mentioned the movie Oblivion yet? A cheesy sci-fi western comedy with George Takei as the town drunk. Pure awesomeness.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0110706/

Westworld should be ranked higher, because if I remember correctly, they had robot whores.

Loved the list and was impressed you found nine other items to lead up to the obvious (but richly deserved) #1 spot for Firefly.

Sometimes I feel a bit low being such a nerd and loving most of Whedon's work and this site's various other topics. But then some bitter, its-cool-to-hate-stuff, asshole actually takes the time to get on this site you create for our enjoyment and then blast you for the articles you write, again, for our enjoyment and I realize there are people who will always be lower.

Thanks Rob. And thanks to the assholes!

What about Cadillacs & Dinosaurs? It has Cadillacs AND dinosaurs!

Rob, Brisco's dad was US Marshal. I would also like to point out that the orbs weren't the only far fetched science fiction elements to the show. There were motor cycles, a tank, a crazy bounty hunting suit, and anything involving Prof. Albert Wickwire (John Astin). The man rode a rocket powered rail car Earth Worm Jim style. If you haven't guessed I freaking loved that show.

No Richard Dean Anderson fans!? Come on Legend!

@Skemono

oh god only knows I've tried to give it a chance... but no matter... I just can't reach that state of total mental meltdown/explosive-diarrhea required to be giving Wheedork a sloppy BJ. I am resigned and therefore bitter of the fact that I'll never understand the genius that is last generation's Stephanie Meyer.

Three things
1 Star Wars is a samurai movie, Lucas has said so in many an interveiw and heck in EVERY MOVIE someone loses an arm. Classic samurai movie thing.

2 Roland Deschain (the gunslinger) is the epitamy of the sci fi cowboy and one of the greatest stories ever told.

3 most important, to all who grill Rob about the list, he didn't write it! He just puts it on the site.
And as an aside, I never got into buffy, I thought angel was ok when I didn't find anything else on tv but serenity/firefly is a hell of a good show. The charecters were rich and had depth and the story was kick ass.
I'm no whedonite but I will defend that show as it deserves respect.

Would have thought Brisco would have made second, but still happy about the list. Brisco and Wild Wild West were great shows that not enough people have heard of.

This is similar to an article on SpaceWesterns.com: 10 Most Influential Space Westerns, posted last week: http://www.spacewesterns.com/articles/116/

Star Wars is most definitely a Space Western. George Lucas has said as much in an interview (I believe with the LA Times):

“I always considered [the Star Wars] films Westerns. What made the classic Westerns of guys like John Ford great was that the stories they told were so simple that they ended up being deeply resonant and inspiring.”

"Zachary Miller said:
What about Cadillacs & Dinosaurs? It has Cadillacs AND dinosaurs!"

It's amazing the way you [mechanical voice] notice two things.

The arguments began faster than I figured they would. But, who am I to underestimate?

Personally, I figure it's a pretty good listing, though I've not seen a few of these. I'm fairly glad Star Wars wasn't on here. Lucas can claim that they're westerns all he wants, it doesn't make that anymore true or him any less senile. It's definitely a Samurai style movie.

in what horrible alternate universe does trigun beat cowboy beebop?

What Chance said.
Firefly/Serenity #1 - God, yes.

Nice to see Gunslinger too.

Where the hell is Star Wars?!

I just can't reach that state of total mental meltdown/explosive-diarrhea required to be giving Wheedork a sloppy BJ.

I used to love the shit out of the original Wild Wild West TV show. Crap, now it's time to buy the DVDs....

@Skemono

if you think that I think folks who like Wheedon are idiots then you're wrong, that's not what I think at all. I think they're misguided, true, I think they really need to take the blinders off, hey, even smart folks can be fooled. I believe Wheedon has his head up his ass, hence the Wheedon Point of View comment, everything that followed is in the same vein - you see I think he's the idiot, after all, it was he and not his fans who wrote the Alien franchise out of existence and then came up with Dollhouse. OK, maybe that bit about needing to be mentally handicapped to be giving him a BJ was a bit over the top. on the otherhand, you got to admit there are folks out there who'd kill to have his cock skywalkering all over their asses so...yeah...you got to question that.

cool list

Oh Trigun. How I love thee.

And Firefly totes deserved the win, great list!

Okay, so I read the comments.

Why do people insist on fucking trolling on our beloved nerd blog?
Some people like the Joss Whedon. Some people don't.
I hate it when people become so super passionate that it becomes an offense to them personally when someone shares an opposing opinion.

I think everyone who is arguing over this Whedonverse issue should just shut up. This is a nerd-blog site of love of all things nerdy. If we can't come together as a people over THAT, then I weep for humanity. We get it, people disagree, get the fuck over it.

Oh, tell us, Great Abraxas, what is it that you love and others hate or do not understand?

List needs more Combat Mecha Xabungle:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tpoIiK8gk8c

Jiron Amos' parents were murdered by Timp Sharon, a wandering gunman. The law only allows punishing criminals if they are caught within three days of committing the crime. By the time the series starts, Jiron has been chasing Timp for a week, making him the one breaking the law.

I never saw Cowboy BeBop as a western. I have no bad memories of it being bad , an I recall I liked it SO I will mention the anime Wild Arms: Twilight Venom

To answer your opening post, it’s the blending and bending of genres that make sci-fi westerns so cool…A clash of these different timeframes and ideals is like grape and lemonade Kool-AID packs…They go together perfectly^^…I’m a huge anime fan (click my name), and Outlaw Star, Trigun, and Cowboy Bebop are 3 of my alltime favorites because of their mix of ol' school western ideals with futuristic settings and most times dystopian viewpoints…

Now I knew Firefly aka Jesus Christ of this site would get tabbed number #1 (and I guess with good reason beyond the blogger’s own indulgence), but what drew me to the show was that it’s a live action story that’s basically a combination of Outlaw Star and Cowboy Bebop…To see that realized in a live adaptation was awesome for me...So while I won’t dispute your list, I think it’s a shame that the anime OUTLAW STAR doesn’t make this list as it’s the closest anime to Firefly there is in existence…

OUTLAW STAR:

-A stolen state-of-the-art ship
-A badass captain with a gun on his hip who’s laid-back but insane when he has to be
-A ship-crew of mixmatched drifters from various walks of life who just get it done
-A girl character who was part of a secret project with incredible abilities
-The crew works odd jobs like smuggling stolen object, or anything else for cash
-Bounty Hunters and loose cannons try to capture the ship and it’s crew at all times
-A huge over-arching plot that threatens the entire galaxy (The galactic Leyline vs. Those over-aggressive monster people in Firefly)

You missed out not listing OUTLAW STAR dude, it’s Firefly before Firefly…

and did I mention it's named OUTLAW Star....OUTLAW!

@RobP

LOL oh I think anyone who's looked at FFF of old knows my taste skewers several shades of fucked up. (I'm still aiming for that mythical 3rd FFF entry!) I guess the difference between me and most is that I just don't give a shit what others think of what I like.

yay whores.

Where's the original Star Trek? That show pretty much set up the concept of the cowboy in outer space.

C'mon, people, Star Wars is NOT a western....it's a samurai film.

I have some disagreements with the ranking of #s 6 through 10 (I mean, seriously. Nothing made by Filmation can rank above anything with a musical score by Yoko Kanno. Them's the rules.), but you nailed it with the top five.

WTF, Goot? No love for "Red Dwarf's" Emmy Award winning episode of "Gunmen of the Apocalypse?" I mean, granted, RD isn't a western, but that fantastic ep alone should get an honorable mention.

And I'm not 100% on this, but I think "FarScape" could be considered partly western.

When I saw the title of the list, I immediately thought of Buckaroo Bonzai since I recall it being westerny. Now, admittedly, I haven't watched this movie since I was a kid...

Anyone seen it recently and was it kinda Sci-fi western, and is it still any good?

@The Shadow

I bow b4 thee at the mention of the great Yoko Kanno...

I can't believe the movie AMERICAN ASTRONAUT is not on this list....like the top of this list.

Star Wars is not a Western, it is also not a Samurai film. It is a complete and total rip-off of Jack Kirby's "New Gods" saga. The Force is the Source, the Death Star is Apokolips, Darth Vader is Darksied, Luke Skywalker is Orion, Obi Wan is Highfather, R2D2 is Mother Box, etc., just as Harry Potter is a total ripoff of "Books of Magic."

Um, can't believe it, but only one person (Nick) mentioned that Star Trek. It was basically "Bonanza in Space." Heck, it was set up like that on purpose! Sure, it evolved a whole hell of a lot (just like them pesky Klingons) as the series spun off, but TOS was DEFINITELY a sci-fi western, especially in the beginning.

i thought i was the only one who remembered brave starr, i used to have the action figures

Man, Brave Starr... God i think i was 4-5 years old when i watched this on TV.
As for Trigun i realy like the series but the Manga is a bit better. It's def. one of my Fav. Manga/Anime Series ever. What you didn't mention was that there are 2 "Punisher" Crosses. The first is just loadet with a bunch regular guns & the 2nd one after Vash used the Angle Arm is the one with the Maschine gun/Rocket Launcher Combo. Witch is one of my all time fav. Weapons right next to Hellsings "Jackal" or Gun Grave's "Cerberus" guns.

@Abraxas - I think you just made my point. "I just don't give a shit what others think of what I like." So, why do you give a shit about what others like?

Did you really forget Outland?
Easily one of the better space westerns, it's sometimes a scene for scene recreation of High Noon, so it's basically High Noon, on Mars.

Battle Beyond The Stars and Titan AE would have been on my list as well.

If you're going to put Bebop on this list it deserves to be way closer to #1 or it shouldn't have been on the list at all. Trigun was good but Bebop basically brought Anime to the masses and was a great mix of spaghetti western, sci-fi and black comedy.

I am with Dave: Outland needs to be on this list. But it doesn't take place on Mars, it takes place on Io.

Also, Garth Ennis' 'Just A Pilgrim.'

@RobP

well now I'm just confused; what's the purpose of this site if not to snark on what other people do/say/like/etc. maybe I'm a bit of a knee-jerk anti-wheedonite but I like to think of it as balancing the just as knee-jerk pro-wheedonite argument.

@Abraxas

Touche! If it makes any difference, I used to be just like you. But then I watched everything he's done. There are times when I'm disappointed, sure, but by and large he impresses me far, far, far more than he disappoints. Which is a lot more than I can say for most writers/directors working in TV/Film today.

Why no Preacher?

Bebop > Trigun

There. i said it.

and while we're on the subject of fairly good anime sci-fi westerns from the 90's, what about Outlaw Star?

what, no Sabre Rider!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YXtQTzJKikg

Ok, I understand all of you are going nuts over this vs. that, but you have to understand that the one show no-one has mentioned (#4) should swap places with Trigun; having seen both, I can tell you that Galaxy Rangers is so much better. Sure its high-tech, 10 years older and American, but, when it came out all of its critics tried to insult it by calling it a "space western".

Also, I didnt like Firefly when it first came out, but I do now; its a fun show with fun characters. Almost as good as Galaxy Rangers.

Thanks guys, I had just about forgotten that Galaxy Rangers existed, and it used to be one of my favourite shows. But seriously, no Saber Rider??

Oh by the way, I saw someone mention Outlaw Star. Awesome 'toon, especially the ship's hand to hand combat mode.

*puts on her imaginary cheer-leading outfit* (of course any self-respecting geek wouldn't actually have one)

GO GO FIREFLY GOOOOOOO!!!!

speaking of all shades of cool, has anyone seen this? The Saber Rider theme done in metal guitar: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=He9-p7f3DEA

Great list!

I am one of the few who has actually seen, regularly watched, and heartily enjoyed the original "Wild Wild West". Great show, there.

2 words MAD MAX
and Starwars is a western, Duels and Boba Fett the bounty hunter (Bounty Hunters!)hardly speaks, is weather beaten, laconic, and wears cool clothes
Lucas said himself he based him on eastwood in the dollars trilogy.

Um.. Most of what King wrote was in the same universe... I thought ALL of it was.

Aww... and I was reading this only to find out where Wild Arms ranked.