• LULZ

• I pooped my pants :-)

• This is a reference to Dudley Doright and was a recurring theme in the cartoon.

• How about a reference to Clint Eastwood where you can have a gravelly voice instead of sounding more like "my asshole college roommate."

• "I lasted until around the time he reached the kiosk, at which point all civilians were either dead, dying, or begging pointlessly for their lives. Then I told him to turn it off." Look. This is the problem. "And then I told him to turn it off." You could have left the room, but instead you wanted to make sure no one else was watching it, either. You say you're not pro-censorship, but the fact is, you want to make sure stuff like this isn't made or seen, which means censorship. The thing that anti-game violence advocates fail to take into account is how the more you play a game, the easier it becomes to treat it like a game and not real life. In my first few hours of playing Red Dead Redemption, I would have balked at this achievement. I was so immersed by the graphics, AI, and atmosphere that the people felt too real, and I felt bad threatening or harming them for no reason. But after a while, you start to notice graphical bugs, or glitches in the AI, and you start to be reminded that you're just playing a touted-up version of Super Mario, and all the people are, at heart, just Goombas walking back and forth on determined paths. Some people reach this stage sooner than others; some start the game there. This is the point where the violence becomes meaningless - where Commander Shepard starts enabling genocide and Niko Bellic starts going on whimsical murder-sprees. Once you've stopped taking your surroundings seriously, what you do in those surroundings is no longer a meaningful behavior. Take the MW2 controversy. My girlfriend went into it not knowing what to expect, and, like you, was taken aback and had to stop playing. I, on the other hand, heard about it way in advance, when it leaked. I saw videos and was thoroughly reviled at the idea. However, by the time the game actually came out, I had come to terms with how the game was really just a game. Maybe I just made myself more alert for little glitches to remind myself this wasn't real, like the slight unnatrualness of the characters' movements. If I had gone in blind, fully immersed in what I was seeing, I'm certain I wouldn't have been able to finish the level. But I kept myself on the couch and the game on the television. On my first playthrough of Mass Effect, I tried to be renegade but ended up having more paragon points, because I found it too hard to act like an asshole to the game's characters. On the second playthrough, when they said the same lines and asked me the same questions, I had no problem being renegade, because the game was no longer an meaningful adventure, but a script being run through. I was motivated by curiosity, not expressing my personal morals and beliefs. What I'm trying to say is, just because what one person does in a game reflects on their character and real-world values doesn't mean the same is true for another person.

• lmao!! they also encourage use of shrooms =P

• TL;DR

• Anyway, throwing nuns on the train tracks is nothing compared to Nintendo games! They make this one where you play the part of an Italian plumber, and you are ENCOURAGED to jump on marine turtles! As we all know there are species of turtle which are critically endangered. And these games are being given to children! How can we stand by while our children are being taught that it's okay to murder our endangered wildlife like this? More than that, it is encouraged with the reward of GOLDEN COINS! Not only that, but you can use the shells of the turtle as weapons to kill plants too. Nintendo are thus actively encouraging children to destroy the natural environment with the carcasses of murdered, endangered amphibians! PS. Is there an achievement for lining up more than one person on the tracks at one?

• Fantastic! Where can I find a nun? I want the achievement. I lost my Hungarian Half-bred yesterday to a train...fast traveled and appeared right in front of it as it was coming to a halt, poor horse didn't make it :-(

• FekketCantenel and KillerTilapia, I juat wanted to say that I thoroughly enjoyed your discussion. It's always nice to see people comment in an articulate fashion.

• As a woman, I'd like you to stop speaking for me. Sure, being a woman is frightening at times, but video games have nothing to do with that. The want to kill for pleasure is caused by something wrong in someone's brain, not outside stimuli. I can assure you, no sane person is going to play this game and start tying women to train tracks. And those who aren't sane would find another way to go about it, just like they have for centuries. As you seem to be possibly overly worried about your safety, I'd like to suggest a book, <i>The Gift of Fear</i> by Gavin De Becker (actually, I suggest this book to all women, it's literally a life saver). It will teach you to recognize when someone is putting you in a dangerous situation, instead of worrying about ridiculous things like being tied to train tracks.

• You DO realize that the achievement is for doing that to ANY woman, not SPECIFICALLY nuns? Not only that, but that this is an ADULT VIDEO GAME and as such is meant FOR ADULTS. It's the PARENTS' fault for buying an ADULT game for someone who's TWELVE. People who do that and get mad at the people who MAKE the game are IDIOTS. There's NOTHING wrong with it because IT'S JUST A GAME, and ADULTS, who are its intended audience, KNOW THAT. Even then, it's meant to be a homage to the silent-movie era villains with the handlebar mustaches and such. The only reason people are flipping out over this is because their little kid badgered them into buying this game for them and then killed a nun. In an ADULT GAME no less. Get over it.

• You got a Nod in the Guardian http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/gamesblog/2010/may/24/rockstar-red-dead-redemption-controversy

• It's called marketing. Rockstar does it everytime because it sells video games. They realized that they made an insane amount of money from the hot coffee fiasco and have been raising the bar ever since. Stop talking about it if you want it to stop.

• LOOK OUT HORSE!

• "It's funny because you actually seem like you're probably a pretty reasonable person and if I had to make a bet I would say that I would probably like you well enough in real life." I try to assume this about everyone I talk to online until definitely proven wrong. Or, to put it another way, I try to comment/chat as if I'm sitting across the dinner table from the other people. It's scary at first but eventually teaches you confidence and respect. "it sounds like you haven't really played a number of the Rockstar games all the way though or haven't played them the way they're meant to be played." To my knowledge, I've only played San Andreas. I gave up after reaching the really huge city past the redwoods forest; the missions were just too all-fired HARD. The social lessons you describe sound fascinating, especially the bit about how 'violence leaves you empty', which, ironically, harkens back to the whole desensitization issue. When Modern Warfare 2 came out, I watched my mate play through the campaign mode. I'd heard something vague about a 'controversial level' but figured it was just two characters having sex off-camera a la Mass Effect. The terrorist level, therefore, was a complete surprise to me. I lasted until around the time he reached the kiosk, at which point all civilians were either dead, dying, or begging pointlessly for their lives. Then I told him to turn it off. I wasn't even playing it and I was still shaken; it was like watching Children of Men (excellent movie), but with my mate playing the genocidal soldiers. That element, to me, was anathema. "[several paragraphs of good info about RDR and Mass Effect (2) that were good points and don't need a response]" "My other problem with yours and other people's reactions in this thread is that you are essentially advocating censorship." Hardly (at least on my part). If history is any indication, censoring something only gives it publicity. Further, Rockstar is a company trying to make money, and though I think they do it in a childish/over-violent fashion, they're not breaking any laws and therefore have the right to make whatever will sell. My problem is that it will sell. Commenters on this thread almost unanimously support and defend it. You call it 'ridiculousness' (to be insulting, I would have said 'absurdity' or 'stupidity'), but I like to think that my disagreement is half me being a (over-?)sensitive person and half me being mature and humane. "There are far better and more reasonable things to get worked up over." Oh, hear hear. I'm also happy with the way this discussion is turning out; half the others I get into online continue on with me suggesting civility while the other party keeps going 'lol f4g gb2 ur mom'. Thanks for coming around a bit and proving wrong my (apparently unbased) assumption about your maturity. "Oh, and Captain N...yeah, I guess I watched more TV than you as a kid. I watched that every Saturday when it was on." Google 'nostalgia critic captain N'; he did a pretty funny review of it. "...and that is the transcript of War and Peace in its entirety." Hey, don't knock long posts. They're hard work, as you're now aware.

• It's funny because you actually seem like you're probably a pretty reasonable person and if I had to make a bet I would say that I would probably like you well enough in real life. I just really don't think you're being fair in your assumptions on this...and in truth you probably became the lightning rod for me on this because you had the longest posts. My frustrations are with everyone on this thread who are getting all worked up over this. Ok...let me see if I can break this down a little better because it sounds like you haven't really played a number of the Rockstar games all the way though or haven't played them the way they're meant to be played. San Andreas held a mirror up to inner city life in the 90s and the corruption of the American dream. All of the GTA games (less so in IV) use satire. It is a very blunt and hard edged satire, but ultimately that's what those games are. Now IV changes that formula somewhat. It goes for a more realistic tone. It very much deals with themes of the corruption of the American dream, how violence essentially leaves one empty, and the consequences of living a violent life (the Lost and the Damned DLC explores these themes even further and is actually pretty brutally sad at times). Bully provides an over the top satire of the social structure in and out of high school and themes of isolation and abuse. Now as for RDR, and mind you I only started playing it yesterday, deals with themes of gaining ones humanity back after making violent and bad choices (now that's all I've gleaned from playing the first couple of hours). And the honor system does offer consequences for choices you make...and it is a deeper consequence system than the "ZOMG 5 stars...get thee to a car wash" system. If you do dishonorable deeds it is reflected on a meter the lower that meter goes the more people you meet will shun you and I believe certain people won't deal with you at all. If you kill a shopkeeper, you have to wait until another one shows up (I believe it is generally 5 days of in game time) before you can access those services again. As for this achievement, yes, they leave off the saving part, but it wouldn't really make sense within the context of what is going on for some random guy to come in and save her...and again, it's a player choice you don't have to do it. In fact, I would go so far as to say that most players won't do it within the context of the game but will simply do it just to get the achievement points which takes even more punch out of the event altogether. As for Mass Effect you can choose to kill innocent people because of how you perceive events, in ME2 you can choose to leave people to burn alive in order to exact revenge on someone else, and you can choose to give a guy who brainwashes his followers and rapes the women a free pass because he was doing what he had to do...there are many other awful things you can do along the renegade line...it's been a while though so I can't come up with a whole lot of other examples. Video games have always had a history of violence. For some reason this instance seems to be a firebrand for some people...I don't really get it, but I'm not really the type to get worked up over something that doesn't really matter in the big picture. I also don't think this will wind up getting any kind of main stream controversy going as I don't believe most people will find this as reproachable as all that. My other problem with yours and other people's reactions in this thread is that you are essentially advocating censorship. I don't much care for that. If this were a kid's game...sure...that wouldn't fly, but it isn't intended for children. It's intended for adults who supposedly can critically think and who are able to differentiate between fiction and reality. I apologize for the snark. The ridiculousness (and I don't mean to be jerky by saying that...I just really can't find another word for it) of getting worked up over this just really gets under my skin. There are far better and more reasonable things to get worked up over. Oh, and Captain N...yeah, I guess I watched more TV than you as a kid. I watched that every Saturday when it was on. ...and that is the transcript of War and Peace in its entirety.

• I don't feel as strongly as you, NameofRain, but I'm glad you spoke up. Ignore creeps who can't disagree without insulting you; they're not worth your time.

• I've been polite and reasonable, while you've been insulting and sarcastic. I don't know why you keep accusing me of being childish; might you be projecting your own insecurities? "There is plenty of stuff as bad or worse in both Mass Effects if you choose to do it. Just like in this game...you choose to do it there is nothing saying you have to..that's a choice you make." I'd like to hear what was 'as bad or worse' in either Mass Effect game. I respect these games for the reasons I stated above and would like to know if my opinion of it should be colored. "Also in RDR there is an honor system. If you do something like this you lose honor points and people in town will look at you less favorably. There are consequences." I sincerely doubt Rockstar has evolved their reputation system past the 'get five stars and then go hide in a garage until it goes away' system. "And I don't know what video games you've been playing but I have yet to burst through the screen, Captain N style, and actually participate in the activity." First off, great reference. Either we both watch the Nostalgia Critic or you watched more TV than me as a kid. Second, playing a video game is much, much closer to participation than passively watching a movie. By playing as a character and controlling their actions, you get into their mindset and feel the setting (at least, with a well-made game). A similar comparison is reading a Dragonlance novel versus actually playing D&D. Well, maybe not 4e. "And yes, RDR does have several wholesome all American moral message for you...just like every other Rockstar game does" I played San Andreas way back in the day (mostly for the driving sim) and can't remember even the most wildly interpretable message other than 'blind Japanese guys are awesome'. If it or RDR have moral messages, I'd actually like to hear them. "Society isn't coming apart at the seems because Rockstar decided to put an homage to melodrama into their game." I'm not going to repeat the obvious argument that it's a piss-poor homage if it 1) leaves out the woman being rescued and 2) is thrown in to add violence and controversy. And no, Rockstar's choice isn't an indicator of society but of the state of that company. However, I find it pretty scary that the majority of the "gamers" here and whom I've talked to IRL think that this achievement is not just harmless, but hilarious. According to my sampling, only one in ten would feel uncomfortable going for this achievement in the game. I noted that these are the same ones who were near-alone in being unable to play the terrorist level in Modern Warfare II. "please don't ruin everything for the rest of us with your manufactured indignation." Where did you get the impression that my disturbed reaction is 'manufactured'? Out of all your insults so far, that one is the most nonsensical.

• Let's boil this down to its simplest property: Red Dead Redemption is an open-world game, you don't have to do anything you don't want to. For those who would not enjoy tossing a bound-n-gagged lady onto railroad tracks to see her get splattered by a train, you don't have to do this to play the game. It's as easy as changing the channel. Actually, easier, since not participating means doing nothing. Nothing at all.

• ...and wow as I reread that, I took a one way ticket to typo-ville, stayed for 6 fun filled days and 7 glorious nights, and then got a first class return trip ticket on Piss-Poor Spelling and Lousy Sentence Structure Airlines. Sorry 'bout that.

• YES, GODS - Please don't let some witch drag us down with her. Heads up - when I get this game, I am so using a nun. Well, unless I get lazy or play a goodie two-shoes. I mean, really - REALLY? I am ashamed of that girl. Sincerely ashamed.

• Well now that's a dumb comparison. I'm pretty sure people were outraged at the time Custer's Revenge came out and rightfully so. The railroad track bit is an homage to a plot device used in melodrama and westerns throughout the century. Custer's Revenge is a shitty little game, developed back in the industry's infancy, that would have died in obscurity if it weren't for ignorant nutjobs bringing it up every couple of years as an example of how video games are hiding under our children's beds at night and sustaining themselves on their sweet innocent tears. As I said up above, if the tying the damsel in distress to the railroad tracks is so reprehensible to you, where were you and your magical rage manufacturing machine during the entire 20th century?

• Sorry if I hurt your feelings with the 8 year old comment. It's not that I lack maturity or don't have a valid argument. It's more that I'm tired of adults acting like 8 year olds. If I actually got the feeling that you played the game and knew what you were talking about or really took the time to put what is happening into context and weren't overreacting to something like an 8 year old who found a fly in her ice cream, I probably wouldn't have said it. I'm so sorry. There is plenty of stuff as bad or worse in both Mass Effects if you choose to do it. Just like in this game...you choose to do it there is nothing saying you have to..that's a choice you make. Also in RDR there is an honor system. If you do something like this you lose honor points and people in town will look at you less favorably. There are consequences. And I don't know what video games you've been playing but I have yet to burst through the screen, Captain N style, and actually participate in the activity. I observe what is going on though this glowing rectangle in my living room. You participate in a video game in the same way you participate in watching a DVD...by clicking a button to make it go. Again, if you can't differentiate between reality and fiction you might need to find something else to do. And yes, RDR does have several wholesome all American moral message for you...just like every other Rockstar game does if you can take the time to actually process what is happening and take into account the story without raging about tiny details that thrust your moral outrage cylinders into the red. And that's cool that you told the 11 year old about this and he thought it was awesome. 11 year olds also go bawling to their teacher because someone used the "s word" (that word would be stupid, not the actual s word), much in the same way that a grown woman becomes all indignant because an M-rated video game throws an innocuous easter egg that lampoons the genre into the mix. Basically, my point is this: It's not a big damn deal. Society isn't coming apart at the seems because Rockstar decided to put an homage to melodrama into their game. Again, if you don't like it, don't play it, but please don't ruin everything for the rest of us with your manufactured indignation.

• Because of this horrible misogyny, the Dudley Do-Right cartoon must be banned FOREVER! The movie must be banned just for sucking.

• NameofRain, I am glad you're offended. Somehow, it makes this video even funnier! Thank you :D

• I'm so very glad jack thompson has been disbarred LOL still won't stop him from being a whiny bitch, but hilarious to know the law isn't on his side (of being batshiat crazy)

• try and stop me you enchanted honky!

• Hows about an homage to .... ...Josey Wales were ye can spit chew tobacky at mutts, insects and carpetbaggers. ...Blood Meridian so ye can scalp Mexicans as well as Redskins and nobody will know the difference ... ...and whatnot

• I'm a parent, and i don't see anything wrong about videogames as a whole; just don't let your kids play fuking adults games

• I dont remember Custer getting any revenge.....

• The big diff here is that in those parodies, lampoons, and cartoons the hero arrives and saves the victim, and the dastard gets foiled. My problem with the achievement is that you stand there and watch them die. The cooler achievement, imo, would be that you tie the person up, throw them on the track then that triggers a cut scene where a "dudley-do-right" type comes in and beats you to a pulp. You know there are consequences to dastardly acts, and this could lead to revenge (for villainous archetypes) that could be exacted on the good guy, instead of death to an innocent.

• There's a level where you kill a bunch of Indian braves and then rape a squaw tied to a pole. Don't get offended, though. It's an homage to Custer's Revenge. And if something is an homage, it's instantly okay.

• "Really? Are you people 8 years old or something?" Starting off by insulting those with whom you disagree indicates a lack of either maturity or a good argument. Trim that out of your future posts and you might get a lot more of your point across. Also: Eight year olds eat this stuff up. I told an eleven-year-old about this story yesterday; his exact words were, "AWESOME!" I guess his IQ range marks Rockstar's target audience. "If a villain tied a woman to the railroad tracks in a movie and she was killed nobody would blink an eye." Nnnnno, that would be a tragedy in the movie and would mark the villain as a Complete Bastard. Meta-wise, it would mark the movie as violent to gory depending on how graphic the death was. Note that a movie is observed but not participated in, while a video game takes participation and roleplay. "stick to games that have either a "T" or an "E" on the lower right hand corner of the cover and let the rest of us who can differentiate between reality and fiction enjoy the quality experiences that some of these games provide." Lots of great but non-dehumanizing games are rated M for Mature. Both Mass Effect games are rated M, yet (as far as I remember) don't contain graphic murder for kicks. Granted, I've never played through on Renegade, but I think if there was anything this bad, I'd have heard about it. Meanwhile, Mass Effect contains wholesome messages about teamwork, tolerance of other (space) races, questions about right and wrong, and Carl Sagan-esque implications on humanity's place in the galaxy. Does Red Dead Redemption do anything but shovel out typical Rockstar fare? Bottom line: Don't think you're mature because you get to play 'M for Mature' games now. As that eleven-year-old proved, there's a tide of difference between 'mature adult' and 'mature enough to laugh at a splattered nun'.

• Hey Folks! Are ye able to lynch and scalp folks? if not it better come in a DLC. cheers

• Hear, hear!

• That was the funniest thing I've heard all day. You may be the first person I've met who is actually concerned about being tied to the railroad tracks. And really, like I said before, if you really want to get pissy about this, you're going to have to hop into your Tardis and go back to around the turn of the century. Manufactured outrage is manufactured.

• Weeeeeeeeeee!!!!!!!!!!

• As a woman, I can say safely it doesn't bother me. Why? Because I know it's an homage to the villains of old. I think people are just looking to stir controversy simply because they don't like Rockstar and thkink they do these kind of things simply to make publicity for themselves. Whilst that may have been the case a decade ago, I think as a company they have moved beyond such immature antics. It's a shame all the moral guardians haven't moved on with them.

• Please don't make generic statements on behalf of 50% of the population. I am a woman and I certainly do not "see all this in a whole new light" or am offended/scared to death or worried about being hog-tied and placed on the train tracks by some weedy nerdy kid. Really, there is a few other things in the world on my list to worry about than non-politically correct games (global warming, crude oil leaking into the ocean and the honeybee colony crisis immediately come to mind). You are entitled to your opinion but don't try to pull the "all sisterhood of womankind feel this act".

• "as a woman, I am scared to death that some young men are going to think this is fun and want to try it in real life, possibly to me." Are you... this is a joke, right? Are you seriously fucking telling me that you are worried someone is going to *tie you to a train-track*? Jesus. Get some help.

• hell, the game Gun was nothing but a string of racism and misogyny, oddly making it accurate to westerns of the 50s and 60s.

• I wonder if you could use this in the Freeplay multiplayer mode to settup your own setting for a game. Perhaps have one character kidnap a woman, tie her to the tracks, and have the others attempt to rescue her before the train arrives.

• here is a link to youtube's appropriate response http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q83Jqd2h0Yg its a spoof of a spoof. which makes it brilliant.

• I don't care if you call it "homage" (and yes, I know about Dick Dastardly) or just a game or some mindless "fun", if you're a woman, you see this in a whole other light. This isn't just a scene, this is something being praised and rewarded. Some of you are going to get mad at me, but as a woman, I am scared to death that some young men are going to think this is fun and want to try it in real life, possibly to me. And I do worry because there are so few places in games and the media where treating women in a positive way is rewarded. It is SCARY being a woman today, and if you don't believe me just take a look at the news.

• Nice. I'd totally forgotten about that. They used to play that on Nickelodeon way back when. Great stuff.

• Really? Are you people 8 years old or something? It is a joke in a game that is rated mature. If a villain tied a woman to the railroad tracks in a movie and she was killed nobody would blink an eye. This is manufactured controversy/rage/despair for society's innocence lost, and it doesn't mean anything. If you are so upset by it, don't play it, don't read about it, and for God's sake don't comment on it. It's people like you who feed the fire of the Fox News "OMG!!1!!one!!11! You can totally have XXX sex with a blue alien who is actually a gay elf prostitute that you must kill after raping her to earn 1000 points...shut the video game industry down now!!!" If you've got that big of a problem with adult themes in games...please...pretty please with a cherry on top..stick to games that have either a "T" or an "E" on the lower right hand corner of the cover and let the rest of us who can differentiate between reality and fiction enjoy the quality experiences that some of these games provide.

• I think you might notice upon a re-reread that I wasn't commenting on whether they were offended or not, but whether or not they were talking out of their ass. They make the claim that Rockstar is just doing it to stir up controversy...they aren't. It's a joke about westerns and is totally in the wheelhouse of the genre. And while the person doesn't out and out say they are offended they definitely present the tone of being none to pleased. As far as being calm...I don't know where you got that I was being pissy. If you did, whatever, my intention wasn't pissy though. Just pointing out that the have-your-cake-and-eat-it-too commenter was taking things out of context and talking out their bum. Kindly read before commenting on commenting and maybe try to be less of a condescending prig.

• Why do they have to have a "use"? There is no "use" for 99% of the population in game, so why would they be any different? Sounds like you are just projecting your own hangups into the game and blaming the game for what you see.

• i think you might notice, upon the reread, that this person was actually not saying they were offended. kindly read before commenting, and maybe calm yourself a wee bit.

• The author of this doesn't seem to grasp the achievement. It's a reference to Dick Dastardly/Snidely Whiplash, etc. I would've hoped it was obvious, but the writer seems to think it's about a nun.

• Exactly what I was thinking, Nicnac: If it's an homage, it would have you rescuing the woman. Just throwing her down and 'witnessing' her die brutally isn't an homage; to say so is an excuse. I'm getting really tired of horrific stuff like this being considered 'normal' and of being mocked for finding it disturbing.

• You get an achievement called "dastardly" for killing a nun on railroad tracks. How is that not hilarious and awesome? I can't tell if people who are upset by this are being deliberately ironic or if they're really that culturally ignorant, but IT'S A JOKE. Snidely Whiplash? Damsel in distress tied up on the railroad tracks? C'mon!

• I was also more concerned when I saw the horse wander aimlessly onto the tracks... don't trip on teh nun!

• Just wait til they get the O.J. referenced achievement. "Heading South on a White Bronco (5 points): Evade the US Marshals while riding the Hungarian Half-Bred horse in Single Player." People are gonna get pissed and start screaming "RACIST!".

• Do I get an extra achievement if I first demand the nun pay the rent? (I assume she can't, in fact, pay the rent) That's not a euphemism, either. I'm actually talking about big burlap sacks with a "$" painted on them.

• Right, a woman. Not necessarily a nun. Which means this whole 'media uproar that may come forth' is just stupid.

• What the hell are you on? It's a homage in achievement form. It was never meant to be an exact recreation of the device itself. Are little easter egg achievements ever?

• Why am I not allowed to play the villain again? That is the point of theses types of games, is it not?

• Best use of the damsel on the railroad tracks http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vHiSCFBUrHc

• Or the opposite of that.

• Damn Rob, I've never disagreed with you more. I know I don't need to go over the idea of this being a blatant homage. Even if it wasn't I still wouldn't care. Since when do all the achievements in a sandbox game have to be geared towards playing a hero. Of course they are going to add villainous achievements. Why only reward one play-style in an open world game? Rockstar has nothing to hide from here and I highly doubt that the achievement was added into the game to produce phony pr. Maybe purposefully exploited after the fact. I am greatly disappointed in the people crying misogyny as well. They have missed the mark by a mile.

• "WAAAAAAAAAAHH!!!!!!!!!!!!" Whine and insult the developers all you want, it won't make this any less unoffensive. Rockstar is such a misogynistic company, though. I mean, you're saved by a woman in the game's opening. A woman who owns a ranch and has the balls to command all the hick workers. Yep, that's so sexist. Oh, and let's not forget all the missions and random events that have you "rescuing the damsel," as you put it. I've saved damn near a dozen chicks from getting knifed already. Honestly, I hate people like you. Stop looking for sexism in everything. You're ruining everything for the people with IQs above eight.

• all of you in here making excuses about how this is a play on the old damsel in distress need to consider one thing. The damsel is invariably RESCUED. Here, Rockstar is being their usual dicks, overly violent toward women because that appeals to the teen age nut player (it's hilarious or something), and it appeals to the media (we can have a field day with the evil liberal hollywood)... If this was an homage or statement to the past, the achievement should have been RESCUE a damsel in distress.

• Okay people say this is an homage to an early melodramatic cliche (one that I'm sure that we're all familiar with). However the point is that you are put in the place of laying this woman down on the tracks deliberately to kill her and you get a direct reward for it. It is sadism and violence for the sake of violence as opposed to violence being used to overcome some adversity. Plus it's in a setting that strives to be, in some small way, realistic. (I'm just providing the other side of the argument here. I massively enjoyed madworld. Although it wasn't striving for realism in that game.)

• Unless it has changed since launch, the achievment states it must be a woman

• Because? What kind of witty banter do you and your friends exchange while you record yourselves railroading nuns? Do you people have to complain about everything?

• I'm more concerned with how he's keeping her attached to the ass of the horse as they're going along. Velcro?

• You win one internets

• I dunno. Isn't one of the whole points of sandbox games, hell the whole point of role-playing and even fiction in general that you can experience being a bad guy without performing any actual evil acts? What? Someone gonna call the thought police for you? This nun fiasco's so cartoony, might as well twirl your mustache, I'd love to see the media and right wingers try to seriously argue that it's a moral problem.

• To recognize the absurdity (and comedy) of this achievement, you must have an understanding of the context. As people mentioned above, it's an obvious homage to an ancient device. If anything, it's comically highlighting the rampant misogynism prevalent in old westers. The people lacking this knowledge are the same people who wouldn't complain about this material in Dudley Do-Right, but they will complain if it's in a video game. It is because they've been told, despite non-stop growing evidence, that video games lead people to violence. I applaud RockStar for including this. This will bring the violent video game discussions to the news again. This can only help their sales while at the same time point out the hypocrisy of the Jack-Baur-loving-anti-violent-video-game crowd. But I agree with Bob-- Rockstar needs to boldly defend themselves for this to have any effect.

• Umm the achievemnet is gotten by tying ANYONE to the tracks, hence dastardly, not just nuns, rockstars not that stupid.

• Point. Winner.

• It seems we cant go six months without a video game controversy of some sort(Dragon Age, Mass Effect, GTA 4 and Manhunt 2...the list keeps going back.) The most ironic part of this is that if hard M rated games were only played by there intended audiences, there would be little to no controversy, but it exists because parents, the group who the media and politicians are supposedly at bat for, are the ones buying their kids these clearly inappropriate games. I cant recall the countless times ive sold games like Saints Row 2 or a God of War or GTA title to a parent who in turn hands it to their little tyke(some of these kids had to be under 10.) So either these parents dont give a shit or are dumbasses who dont realize the content in these games. Either way it makes me want to reach across the counter and slap some sense into them. It's this gross parental ineptitude that endangers adult content in video games for the rest of us. Side Note; Red Red Redemption is excellent so far, its like a polished, expanded and improved Gun (which is a very good thing). I doubt I'll be chucking nuns onto train tracks though; think ill pass.

• Right, because the Old West wasn't at all misogynistic. Not a bit. Come on, people. It's a game.

• Good ol' Rockstar!

• Here's a whole damn playlist of damsels in distress tied to train tracks. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c73lFxN5Cr4&feature=PlayList&p=80E8DCB95282A150&playnext_from=PL&playnext=1&index=40 Can we pretty please put our big girl panties on now and realize that this is an homage to the genre and that there isn't any real controversy here (granted I'm sure the Fox talking heads will manufacture some, but they could manufacture some out of helping children escape a burning orphanage)?

• Rockstar Games: Thinking People Can Handle Things Like Adults But Being Horribly Wrong

• Well, when there is a rash of preteens tying women to the railroad tracks while dastardly twirling their mustaches, we'll all come back to you and say you were right.

• No. Rockstar put this in the game as an homage to western melodrama which is partially what the game is about. Kind of like they used the music as an homage to spaghetti westerns. Kind of like they have a Slim Pickens style character to pay homage to all of the western films he was in and helped define. This is exactly what Fox News does with this stuff. They don't understand the context but decide to go shooting off at the mouth anyway.

• I completely agree... While we're at it Dudley Do Right was a monster too...and every single cartoon from the 70s and 80s that used this same device. Oh and the melodrama playwrights...they should be drawn and quartered because they use the same tying a woman to the railroad tracks plot device too. And let's not forget countless old western movies...give them the chair too. It's an homage to these things! It's a joke for the people who actually enjoy the western genre and who can take things with a grain of salt. What is going on in our society that is producing such mass quantities of over-sensitive a-holes?

• It's a plot device in several melodramas. The tying the damsel in distress to the railroad tracks conceit is pretty old. If people get all worked up over this, they need to go back and get all worked up over a ton of theatre, film, animation, and books too. It's simply paying homage to those things...nothing more. It's time for the folks who are getting up in arms about this to take a xanax and then go continue crafting their collage of imagined wrongs.

• The problem is, while games are an escapist experience for the vast majority for those who play them, for certain people they're not. And while I don't doubt that those idiots would just have done stupid shit anyway based on comics / cartoons / AC DC albums / whatever, giving critics ammo just by doing stupid shit like this is pointless. Of course, Rockstar knew full well what they're doing and I bet they're going to love the PR. Here's hoping they don't puss out like they did during the Hot Coffee mess.

• This is a non-issue. How many video games have achievements for killing in so many different enemies/people/aliens/whatever in however many different ways? Save the fake outrage, please. Use your energy on something more productive. Maybe you could volunteer at a homeless children's shelter or something and actually do some good. Either way, it's a fucking video game. Video games are meant to be escapist, gratuitous, and fantasy-fulfilling. We've been killing things ever since we could stomp on a turtle and use it to kill something else...

• You are not alone.

• Is it possible that Rockstar is killing all the online videos of something from their game because of copyright issues, the same reason that tons of other companies kill online videos of their stuff? <p> I'm seriously asking here because "online videos" could mean either "videos that Rockstar licensed out for certain sites to show or videos that Rockstar put up themselves" or "videos that your average citizen unaffiliated with Rockstar in any way ripped and slapped up on YouTube". If it's the former, then yah, that might be considered some suspicious behavior. If it's the latter, then it just seems like business as usual to me.

• In all fairness, a big part of the Comic's Code was that the major comic studios didn't want to compete with the little start ups, so they created the comic's code to force the little guys out of business. No part of that disaster was a shining period in history.

• This person has sense.

• No, it's not, because if you got the joke you wouldn't be crying about nonexistent sexism.

• It is possible for someone to get the joke and still recognize something as being misogynistic! oh wait, i forgot: "waahhhhh"

• "the feminists"

• Rockstar Games: Creating controversy purely for controversy's sake

• Even though I consider myself a feminist (as in, I believe in equal rights for BOTH genders, as everyone honestly should), I feel absolute dick for this video game death. Anyone who would actually think it's okay to tie a nun (or anyone, male or female) to a set of train tracks and watch them get horribly dismembered by an oncoming locomotive probably already had issues long before this game released. I'm not going to deny that women are subjected to some pretty shitty stuff in video games (and all media) but I know getting all riled up about this is exactly what Rockstar put it in the game for. It's about as productive as getting pissed at something said on FOX news.

• snidely whiplash specifically tied nell fenwick to railroad tracks in the opening of dudley do-right, so this was an homage to that. hanna-barbera's dick dastardly was derivative of this guy's design. my guess is the developers forgot who was who and named the achievement as such.

• Really, this is where you draw the line? What about the countless slasher films, or hell, the silent movies in which women were tied to the rail road tracks?

• You're not getting it, either. None of you are fit to comment when you don't get the fucking joke. Here, one second... http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=4980806064420870701# This. It's a famous cliche that's been parodied, lampooned and pointed out in every form of media for decades. In old school western serials, the generic dastardly villain's main form of dickery was tying the love interest to railroad tracks. How do you people not know this? Are you really frothing at the mouth that hard to get some more imaginary ammo for the "waaaaaah misogyny!" arguments? Get over it and educate yourselves before trying to make a point.

• In my career as a video gamer, I have murdered literally billions of people. Maybe trillions. Without exaggeration. In Master of Orion, I would send 300 million people to go kill another 300 million people. A lot. I would bomb hundreds of millions of people with weapons that made nukes look like a rubber band gun. In Civilization I fought world wars. In Total War I would massacre whole cities to make them easier to control. And that's not even getting into the tens of thousands of people I've personally shot, stabbed, killed with dark demonic energy, railgunned, blew up, crushed, run over, nuked. Hell, I once created a lethal parasite that killed every human on earth. So I don't really get how I can do all that, and it's OK. But this, oh this, this is too far. It's a video game. It's all pretend. See, I didn't actually kill or harm anything. All the violence and destruction I've done in video games has caused less pain and suffering than that time I gave my little sister an indian burn. And that's why I don't really care about what happens in video games. It has no real moral content whatsoever. Run over nuns with trains, stomp on Bowzer,beat a level of Bejeweled. It's all the same thing and it's nothing.

• I guess I'm the only person who was irked by the ridiculous clipping issues evident in this video.

• &#64;Kris: Absolutely true enough, but when you have enough weight on the side of the pundits, you can end up with a situation where retailers end up supporting a "voluntary" ban on anything that doesn't meet a certain arbitrary standard. In the past couple of years we have seen several states push prohibitive legislation. If the pressure gets strong enough that video game makers start seeing the real possibility that a chain like Best Buy or Wal-Mart may stop carrying their games, this could result in a serious change. In Germany, there already are some very strong laws that prohibit or ban entirely any game that has themes of "excessive" violence. Australia has also thrown up a number of roadblocks to various games for similar reasons. There is a lot of fear and distrust right now about video games- everything from "Video games cause obesity and poor school performance" to "Video games encourage violence and antisocial behaviors" to "Online games are where perverts lie in wait for children". Most parents have little or no idea how parental controls work, including the most basic one of turning off the damn system when the kid won't stop playing. Among the older generation (Baby Boomers and older) I see video games being almost universally distrusted, and perceived as being a contributor to the general state of all the problems they find in the younger generations. Even the younger parents of teenagers and pre-teens that I encounter (I'm an art educator)tend to have a great deal of ambivalence about video games, and do not see them as a good use of their kids time and energy. I doubt many of them would complain if either the government or an independent umbrella organization were to put some significant restrictions on video game content. Just a few observations.

• Bullshit. Watching a little kid or a priest get run over by a train should also count as being pretty dastardly.

TotalComments: 100